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  #51  
Old 12-04-2019, 03:46 PM
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My favorite all time response to someone watching me work, who had gotten up to stomp off and was furious simply said

"I could do that if I only knew how."

So, in all this conversation i see again and again that the time actually taken to improve one's rote skills is really years long. I kept telling Eveline that for her to get better was going to involve hours at the bench she simply couldn't give. I relate that to today and the apparent desire to experience making glass and none of them, and none of the hourly committments I see in dabbling are going to get anyone anywhere if they want to get to the skills levels of the masters that so many admire.

Filigrana technique is kind of interesting to me. Unless you do it perfectly it looks terrible and once its really perfect, it looks commercial. I said that way back when I went on the GAS Board to run the newsletter. I do continue to believe that but I no longer see the dedication to technique by the mass of aspiring glass people. That said, I love the pieces I own of Kenny Pieper, Scott Benefield and Chuck Savoie that are in my collection. Well done all.

But it's never going to happen for people who haven't put in the hours with the gas bill attached. You really have to want to do this well to do it in a meaningful way and life is really short. Unless you have hands like Billy Morris, you have to put in the time and I don't see it much.
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  #52  
Old 12-04-2019, 05:24 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is online now
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I keep attempting to reply to this thread but stop myself as I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.

My thoughts are that there are a bunch of studios out there that are valuable enough to sell as a business. They are too busy making glass and money to spend time on craftweb.
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  #53  
Old 12-04-2019, 05:34 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Ah the joys of administrative employment, simultaneously making money and complaining on craftweb.
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  #54  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eben Horton View Post
I keep attempting to reply to this thread but stop myself as I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.

My thoughts are that there are a bunch of studios out there that are valuable enough to sell as a business. They are too busy making glass and money to spend time on craftweb.
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They always come around when they need something.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:54 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Banks rarely loan $ for glass studios just as they wouldn't finance glass factories. Return on investment is not quick enough to lure lenders in today's market. I don't see that many glass blowers paying themselves in 6 figures which in today's world doesn't seem to be that much. I don't see any glass worker's on Shark Tank. Ha Ha

BTW: a friend told me that Eric of Uroboros has rented his building and is now making much more money than he ever did in glass and has very few hassles and aggravations.
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  #56  
Old 12-04-2019, 08:11 PM
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Especially with those built in security windows that are opaque.
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  #57  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:05 PM
Rick Kellner Rick Kellner is offline
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Hey, the decorative chemical fume etching fits with the aesthetic of the neighborhood.
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  #58  
Old 12-05-2019, 05:55 PM
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Ugh. I worked there for five years guys. Quit reminding me.
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eben Horton View Post

My thoughts are that there are a bunch of studios out there that are valuable enough to sell as a business. They are too busy making glass and money to spend time on craftweb.
This is right on the money. Pete is also right on the money. What a good resource for people.
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  #60  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:28 PM
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If you will, try to imagine Dale selling his business.
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:30 PM
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I think that's several orders of magnitude different than what we've been talking about but interesting to think about. Not while he's alive. After that? Anyone's guess. Some big international brand wants to scoop it up? Maybe. It's Chihuly Inc these days. The designs, etc, aren't dependent on him anymore.
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  #62  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:19 AM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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I have a feeling his staff accountants, attorneys and marketing personnel will put together a package to buy it or market it. They are the oines thatseem to be responsible for running the business these days.
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  #63  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:33 AM
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My real point there was when does what started off purportedly to be art, is reduced to commodity and what is the relative value of it at that point. The first Navaho blanket cylinders were the real deal and there were around 45 of them. The commodity people resurrected them and devalued them at the same time but it meets payroll.
At one point Dale gave me a piece for giving him a ride to the airport in the middle of the night. I know he never saw it and I sold it to a woman who knew he never saw it, but it was indeed expensive. Is this sort of like Tiffany's modern as opposed to the real deal?
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:41 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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I'm they type that feels that if you didn't make it, it's not art, it's product. Sure, you may be the designer, but that degree of separation is significant.
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Old 12-06-2019, 05:48 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Everette View Post
I'm they type that feels that if you didn't make it, it's not art, it's product. Sure, you may be the designer, but that degree of separation is significant.
Then Disregard a lot of the paintings and sculpture in the best world museums. They came out of "factory" producing art studios even 300 years ago.
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Old 12-07-2019, 10:08 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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I'm actually interested in a lot of the study that tries to determine if it's the work of the artist or the studio. I'd say for me that the ones from the artist deserve more accreditation. Plus I prefer impressionist and surrealist work over that of the renaissance.
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  #67  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:09 AM
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Harvey's paradox rules here.

If you make a really nice piece there will be a lot of galleries that will want your work. If you can't provide them with the work, they will drop you and look for someone else since they' re really just selling a commodity.

If however you hire people to help make the work to satisfy the demand, you will be roundly criticised for not doing the work yourself.

I feel the same way that you do Shawn but it doesn't really matter.
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  #68  
Old 12-08-2019, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fuhrman View Post
BTW: a friend told me that Eric of Uroboros has rented his building and is now making much more money than he ever did in glass and has very few hassles and aggravations.
The first of only a handful of times I had a one-on-one conversation with Eric he told me he sometimes wished things were still a one man operation. When I got there I knew things were rough. It was 2009, and they really wanted to hire me, but couldn't justify it to the rest of the crew as they were laying-off people. I couldn't find a job like most people at that time.

I knew it as the death knell for them when the whole DEQ thing blew up. I've avoided criticizing Bullseye because I assume that it could be easily dismissed due to some bias. The one thing that bothered me was that I knew Uroboros didn't have the resources, while Bullseye was opening new facilities in cities across the country. They could have taken the initiative to install pollution controls, and would have come out smelling like a rose. That just my opinion, and I know there's a lawsuit and all that.

Just glad Eric found someone to rent the building. For all the challenges and frustrations of working there I did want them to succeed. Sad to see it go.
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  #69  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:41 PM
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I would have thought he might try to sell it but if that had been the case, I'd imagine some due diligence might have dug up the long term effects of making that particular product for decades.
As a business woman Lani had a better sense of how to sell in that market although the sys96 approach caught them up short for a while. Both shops sought a totally different market but they certainly hated each other.
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Old 12-08-2019, 02:25 PM
Steven O'Day Steven O'Day is offline
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Looks like Pacific Northwest College of Art is in the building.
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  #71  
Old 12-08-2019, 05:43 PM
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A discussion about 'selling a glassblowing business' is really tough because glass is so broad. There are lots of types of glassblowing businesses and each has a different market, product or service, sometimes business model, etc.

For example, my 'glassblowing business' is radically different than a production shop, a public access studio, a blow your own shop, ornament factory, etc.

My point is that each business needs to evaluate it's own market value based on its own balance sheet, business model and place in the market. There is no one size fits all.
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  #72  
Old 12-08-2019, 07:23 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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as it is in real estate, location, location is very important. Somethings will work where others won't John Triggs built a nice business stuck way back in the hills and never thought about the walk-in business. Others rely heavily on the proximity to a large metropolitan area or a tourist destination. Niche markets many times can be the most profitable but are not always easy to expand exponentially. They all need to be evaluated individually and the bottom line is what ultimately matters.
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