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Old 01-02-2017, 11:45 PM
Paul Hayworth Paul Hayworth is offline
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Mini Dragon Furnace

The Little Dragon. Baby dragon Furnace starter kits for blowing glass any glassblowers used one
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Old 01-03-2017, 03:07 AM
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Happy New Year!

http://www.mobileglassblowingstudios.com/pricing.html
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Old 01-03-2017, 03:44 PM
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I have. It is as advertised. Nice guys who make it. Willing to listen and alter their product. Time will tell if it can handle the hot/cold cycles but in a year or so I will be in a better position to let you know.

I do not have a stake in their success but I like their attitude a lot. It helps them more than they realize.

If you have any really specific questions I can go literally look at it in person as I have access to one not 3 miles from where I am currently sitting.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:21 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Their ornament lear pretty cool!
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:03 PM
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Lehr. Lear was an English political failure. We have to stop meeting like this.
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Old 01-03-2017, 07:54 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Once again... spell czech bites me in the aspen.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:23 AM
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Maybe Asp bytes?

Everything I see on the dragons is that the are well suited to the weekend glassworker. They are marketing in Europe as well to the best of my knowledge.
I'm unaware of larger units but they may well be making them.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:31 AM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Definatly a weekend warrior chariot. But it could also be a nice little color pot furnace for a full time studio.
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eben Horton View Post
Definatly a weekend warrior chariot. But it could also be a nice little color pot furnace for a full time studio.
*****
Definitely... I would never build a single pot furnace for color. To use it effectively, two pots ( 7 inch) would be the minimum. If you do more than three, you'll never use them before they go bad.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:51 PM
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I thought the same thing, and then remembered the pots are invested.

Since they seem to be very open to suggestions, I think they would be willing to make a custom multi-pot one if requested.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:53 PM
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It's a toe in the door way Paul. The tent can't close. Free standing is very gutsy. It's profoundly scary but in the color world, scary is the game. You want nice, here's nice.../
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:05 PM
Mitcheal Veenstra Mitcheal Veenstra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Vriethoff View Post
I thought the same thing, and then remembered the pots are invested.

Since they seem to be very open to suggestions, I think they would be willing to make a custom multi-pot one if requested.
Greg, I talked with Phil about if they'd be willing to build one that had the pot bedded in sand or what not so I could pull the pots and swap them easy because I had been thinking about using it for a small gas color melter. He said they would be happy to make one for me the way I wanted.

They are very open to other ideas. Plus they really stand behind their products doing what needs to be done to make things right by people.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:18 PM
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I keep building these little color furnaces and they cost about $2500 to make. There has to be some room for a non 10K furnace out there. It really isn't rocket science. 45K furnaces just really irritate me. I think the dragon is a good beginning.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:47 PM
Mitcheal Veenstra Mitcheal Veenstra is offline
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I'm just finishing up the refurb/rebuild of my old original Mark Lauckner color pot electric furnace I taught myself to blow glass out of to turn it into a little cullet color melter for my little shop. When I branch out into batch color I'll need a small gas color furnace. The little dragon's have been really interesting to me for that proposed task. Also looked at Dudley's book that shows the Peisner color furnace with 2 or 3 small pots. I might could build one of those cheaper than even the littlest dragon furnace they sell, but I don't know.. But that's in the future..

Phil and Chuck do good work. if it'd been around back in 1999 when I build my first little electric pot furnace I would have probably gone with one of them. They are really nice.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:57 PM
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Don't misunderstand me. I like the entire approach they're taking. I simply would like to see people taking their destiny into their own hands. I would love to see people re-embrace what we started off to do fifty years back. It all seems so lost now. My earliest color furnaces were in fifty gallon drums. They worked, not well. I made glass, I was infatuated. What I build now, any one could do if they just had a welder and a plasma cutter. I think my safety system cost about $400 dollars.

Mark has indeed dragged the pot furnace out from under the bicycles in the basement. We're talking again daily. He's teaching this class at Penland. Now, he writes to me from the bathtub about phase separation. I love seeing him excited as well as clean.

... But, it's Peiser, not Peisner. If you ever get the chance to study with him, do it. If you ever get the chance to hear him tell stories, do that too. I want to get him back up here next year. As he said, "the best way to keep your costs down is to stay out of the studio. "
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:45 PM
Max Epstein Max Epstein is offline
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This is what my furnace looks like. My buddy fabbed the whole thing. I added the entire flame safety system and controller with Charlie Correll's help.

The pots are cracked as f***. But I'm sure it has been turned on and off well over 100 times in the last 6-7 years. It has a recouperated? annealer up top that works okay. I've stopped using it since it sucks.

I'm using it as an furnace/glory combo at the moment. It came out of Juicy Lucy the Glassblowing Hotrod from Louisville, KY. I'll be rebuilding it soon and dropping in a bigger pot. Don't know if I'm gonna go fully invested this time or not, it looks like my business plan is gonna be mobile demos and I can't afford two furnaces at the moment.

I still have some work to do --- relocating the controller and the conduit away from the furnace. And that damn blower is LOUD so I think an enclosure is in order. My previous Ring was SILENT. What gives?

I co sidered Mobile Glassblowing's setup, as they are just 3 hours north of me. But I built this at least $4,000 cheaper and... I built... a furnace.... which is pretty neat in my book... took forever, though...

It eats about 1-1.5 gallons of propane/hr. Which is a perk of having a combo unit.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:56 PM
Max Epstein Max Epstein is offline
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I posted this to show off a lititle and to show the similarities to Mobile Glassblowing's Studios who are a great bunch of guys who helped me out even though I didn't buy anything.

Also... Phil was on the phone with me when the building is was in was struck by lightning --- that's Florida for you. Phone zapped my face.
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:43 AM
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Charlie likes these 12 inch Water column blowers. They're profoundly noisy That safety system looks incredibly complex.
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Old 01-07-2017, 05:37 AM
Steve Lazer Steve Lazer is offline
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Safety Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
Don't misunderstand me. I like the entire approach they're taking. I simply would like to see people taking their destiny into their own hands. I would love to see people re-embrace what we started off to do fifty years back. It all seems so lost now. My earliest color furnaces were in fifty gallon drums. They worked, not well. I made glass, I was infatuated. What I build now, any one could do if they just had a welder and a plasma cutter. I think my safety system cost about $400 dollars. "
Pete with your former fire marshal background I would be very interested to understand your safety system at such a low cost. Please explain as I try to build a studio from the ground up.

Thank you
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:54 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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In line in my system initially is a solenoid value at 2 lb pressure. It is tied to the household wiring. If there's a power failure, it shuts the system down. In line after that is a BASO valve, also high pressure and it has a pilot and a thermocouple. They both go and tuck in to a little keyhole slot under the Giberson burner head. The pilot will indeed shut down if the power goes out but the thermocouple continues to monitor actual furnace temperatures. If the power comes back on in just a short time, the thermocouple reads no significant change, the lower valves open and things return to normal. Further up the line from the BASO is yet another solenoid and it is tied to a controller which turns the fuel source on and off at the desired temperature. Right above it is yet a needle valve controlling gas flow. I got the basic parts from Dudley since I really believe in supporting the efforts of other glass people. I am sure it could be gotten for less but the whole mess ran under 500 bucks, short of the controller which I've had for thirty years. I needed one solenoid regardless of the system. This has two solenoids, one needle valve and one BASO Valve. It does not shut off the blower which I have been too lazy to deal with.

It has been real time tested three times. It worked perfectly.

In the Uniform Fire Code ( UFC), as well as in the Uniform Building Code (UBC) , the opening page has a statement which says this code shall apply but can be waived if acceptable to the Authority having Jurisdiction ( The AHJ). That means your inspector. The code calls for allowing common sense. It rarely gets used because no inspector wants the liability for using it bu the code makes room. Where I live, there is no code at all.

I hate the UV sensors, the protectifier, I hate complex controls, I hate proportionators and I hate zero pressure regulators. I hate the rats nest of gas plumbing it requires. I look at the crap that Max had to install , I look at my system which is a total of 12 inches long and the cost which I well know and I think back to my time in the fire service.

We always had this active body of salespeople trying to get their product not only approved by the International Assoc of Fire Chiefs ( IAFC) or the hallowed NYFD fire department. It was purely business. Aluminum wiring found its way into the code because aluminum manufacturers wanted to sell wire. It turned out to be really dangerous as the wire worked loose under wire nuts. Then it had to be soldered and that occasionally cracked loose. A major pain and the cause of many electrical fires. So I'm wary of that stuff.

Now? we have specialists who install remarkably complex and expensive systems to run your furnace. In my case, I'm not required to use it and I don't. It would take some more consideration to make it run with recuperation but I did that in New Mexico on some pretty big furnaces and it worked there.

This uses a really cheap Robertshaw thermocouple and is best replaced about every six weeks. It's under ten bucks. It's a regular maintenance issue. The thermocouple for the controller is a type S 14 inches long. I don't view it as part of the safety system.
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:57 AM
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My safety system ran around $2500 (2x solinoids, flame scanner, air and gas pressure switches, protectifier, spark plug ignition/transformer) the controller, variable blower, proportionator, and thermocouple ran another $2500.

I had a lot of fun building it even if it was frustrating at times. I'm a FREAK when it comes to safety so I don't think I would have been comfortable with much less. Especially leaving it unattended.

I'm running also a solenoid at the wall where the gas comes in. My electrician hooked up the estops on the wall to it, and installed a trick 5 prong plug from the furnace that will shut off power to that solenoid as well when the estop is hit on the furnace itself.

When I go mobile he made a 5 prong to normal 3 prong extension.

I'm currently looking to add a few more controls... CO detectors wired into that system... I think adding a gas sniffer is overkill but maybe. Still broke at this point.

I was thinking maybe temp sensors in the hood like a kitchen? With two settings, one to turn it on and say if it gets toooo hot aka something is burning it shuts the system.
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:58 AM
Max Epstein Max Epstein is offline
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PS I don't know why my pictures are posting upside down.
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:12 AM
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I suppose I could add a 6 dollar air switch for the blower. That would catch it if it failed. I was sort of a safety freak myself when I ran the fire department. I'm comfortable.
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Old 01-07-2017, 02:11 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Epstein View Post
My safety system ran around $2500 (2x solinoids, flame scanner, air and gas pressure switches, protectifier, spark plug ignition/transformer) the controller, variable blower, proportionator, and thermocouple ran another $2500.

I had a lot of fun building it even if it was frustrating at times. I'm a FREAK when it comes to safety so I don't think I would have been comfortable with much less. Especially leaving it unattended.

I'm running also a solenoid at the wall where the gas comes in. My electrician hooked up the estops on the wall to it, and installed a trick 5 prong plug from the furnace that will shut off power to that solenoid as well when the estop is hit on the furnace itself.

When I go mobile he made a 5 prong to normal 3 prong extension.

I'm currently looking to add a few more controls... CO detectors wired into that system... I think adding a gas sniffer is overkill but maybe. Still broke at this point.

I was thinking maybe temp sensors in the hood like a kitchen? With two settings, one to turn it on and say if it gets toooo hot aka something is burning it shuts the system.
Where's the fire marshal's inspection tag for that squirt bottle? I might have lost its charge over the years.
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Old 01-07-2017, 02:48 PM
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well, I can see part of why you're broke.
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