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Old 06-25-2008, 08:42 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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High Temp Crucibles

I am pleased to introduce High Temp Refractory Company of Portland Oregon. I have been working with this 40 year old company for the last year developing crucibles for the studio glass industry. It is now the original equipment supplier for all of Steve Stadelman's Moly furnaces and has become my primary supplier for larger crucibles in the glass trade. Currently, I am the exclusive representative for High Temp Crucibles .

We have been field testing a 92 percent alumina body for these pots and have found them to perform extremely well in the field. The quality of the castings is superior in every way, the freight, handled by Fed-Ex Freight and UPS ground are extremely reasonable in their rates.

They cost a good deal less than any of their competitors.

We are currently selling a 34 inch pot, a 24 inch pot , a 28, a 19, a 16 a 14.5 inch pot and a 7 inch pot. The capacities of each of these pots will be similar to those of Engineered Ceramics. More sizes will come in the fall . We decided to concentrate on pots that are in wide usage first and to field test them. Those results have been excellent without problems of any sort over a prolonged period. I placed them with both experienced and inexperienced shops so I could get a good handle on the levels of abuse they would tolerate. The initial pots placed with Rick Satava had him melting his silver cobalt lustre glass which is profoundly corrosive. After three months in the furnace, we took the pots and diamond sawed them to show that these glasses had not penetrated the casting in any way. Currently Boyd Suguki and Josh Simpson are using the 24 inch pot as the primary melter and are happy campers. Steve Stadelman thinks enough of the pots that he is using them exclusively in his new furnaces.

High Temp makes and sells all sorts of refractory products for extreme temperature applications. I will also have available a variety of bricks, castables, mortars and insulating materials that will ship from Portland at reasonable prices. I will initially maintain these products in Portland only to keep from having to ship them twice, thereby keeping costs down. I will post a link to those products and their pricing soon. They are all available now.

Current Pricing for crucibles is as follows:

34 inch pot (600lb) $1984.00
28 inch pot (400lb) $1305.00
26 inch pot (393lb) $1228.00
24 inch pot (270lb ) $ 689.00
22 inch pot (190lb) $ 665.00
19 inch pot (145 lb) $ 526.00
14.5 inch pot (80lb) $ 286.00
11.5 inch pot (37LB) $ 168.00 straight wall
12.5 inch pot (92lb) $ 306.00 Straight wall 16 inch tall
11 inch pot (33lb) $ 165.00
7 inch pot (18lb) $ 55.00 Straight wall

COMING SOON ! 11 INCH POTS

All FOB Portland OR. Visit our Store www.crucibleconnection.com

Last edited by Pete VanderLaan; 06-26-2008 at 05:16 PM. Reason: more mind boggling info
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Old 06-25-2008, 04:42 PM
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Rich Federici Rich Federici is offline
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7" Pot

Dear Pete,

Is the 7" pot a flat bottom or round bottom? And... do you feel that it is made with a coarser or finer grog than the EC pots.

The reason I ask is that the EC flat bottom (3772) didn't seem to last very long, especially with cobalt. Not so much as failure due to cracks, but pinholes.
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:56 PM
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It is a fine slipcast for that size pot and it held up really well. We never lost one, we simply pulled them from the furnace so we could saw them up. That particular pot does not look as clean as the EC pot but in my opinion, it really delivered the goods. The larger pots are coarse grain tabular alumina as are the ones from EC but the casting is a lot tighter.

I don't want to bad mouth one manufacturer over another as I never bad mouth LaClede and I will still supply EC pots for those that want them . I am saying that the castings from High Temp are simply superior in quality as to the castings and the diamond sawing results were everything I could have hoped for. Steve switched to High temp so I suppose he might offer up his opinion. I don't know. I do think that when I am able to sit on the floor in the production facility with the president of the company drawing on the floor that I am in my element. This is a big operation , making major components for industry but they are giving this project their rapt attention. I like these guys.
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Old 06-27-2008, 01:18 AM
Steve Stadelman Steve Stadelman is offline
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These pots will be fantastic. The E.C. pots would come with a layer of slip smeared over the entire pot to hide defects like lip dings and hairline cracks in the potwall, the large sizes were especially bad. Les at High Temp will simply not allow it. If a pot is bad in any way they will not knowingly release it. Because of the initial blanket orders from Pete they understand the importance of our niche and want to work to supply the best possible product. I have the luxury of being able to drop in at any time and wander through the plant and they are not slacking.
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:17 AM
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Garner Britt Garner Britt is offline
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Any idea how these will handle thermal shock compared to the EC? Just wondering on behalf of those of us that run wiremelters part time.

garner
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:57 AM
Steve Stadelman Steve Stadelman is offline
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Les has paid a lot of attention to the coefficients of all the ingredients to these Garner. It is a balancing act of coe and particle size and les has 30+ years doing this and I am very confident that they will be better than E.C. in the thermal shock arena.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:35 PM
Patrick Casanova Patrick Casanova is offline
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Thumbs up Congratulations!!!

Congratulations Pete!


Will you be making the 22 x 13 or was demand too light to warrant it?
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:44 PM
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I have experienced problems with EC pots- slip covered defects, hairline cracks and extremely unsatisfactory customer service. EC pots are tough, having survived power failures without damage. I hope the new pots are as good as they say.
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:53 AM
Virgil Jones Virgil Jones is offline
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??????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Stadelman View Post
These pots will be fantastic. The E.C. pots would come with a layer of slip smeared over the entire pot to hide defects like lip dings and hairline cracks in the potwall, the large sizes were especially bad. Les at High Temp will simply not allow it. If a pot is bad in any way they will not knowingly release it. Because of the initial blanket orders from Pete they understand the importance of our niche and want to work to supply the best possible product. I have the luxury of being able to drop in at any time and wander through the plant and they are not slacking.
Steve (and Pete),

Are you saying the crack in my pot in my new Stadelman furnace is definitely a factory defect? If that is the case then I assume I will be reimbursed for the price of replacement. The vertical hairline crack WAS slightly noticeable at first as I informed both you and Pete. After a short amount of use it's very much there now!! I am changing the pot today with one of the THREE I just purchased from Pete...Are you telling me that I might be putting a defective EC pot in the furnace...One that has been camouflaged by the factory????

Virgil Jones
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:43 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil Jones View Post
Steve (and Pete),

Are you saying the crack in my pot in my new Stadelman furnace is definitely a factory defect? If that is the case then I assume I will be reimbursed for the price of replacement. The vertical hairline crack WAS slightly noticeable at first as I informed both you and Pete. After a short amount of use it's very much there now!! I am changing the pot today with one of the THREE I just purchased from Pete...Are you telling me that I might be putting a defective EC pot in the furnace...One that has been camouflaged by the factory????

Virgil Jones
***************

The only "camouflage" I ever see on EC pots is at the rims where they try to cover up small bite size munches in the lip Virgil. They irritate me because it doesn't make the "munch" go away. What should be happening there is that the "munch" shouldn't exist in the first place in my opinion and that trying to cover it up doesn't inspire much confidence either. EC however does not think that this is a serious problem and will not warranty it. I have yet to see a "munch" actually cause a failure of a pot.

I never know about cracks. EC takes the position that you need to inspect the pot extremely carefully when you receive it. Their position is that it may have been cracked in shipping. Maybe true, maybe not true. I can usually tell the difference between a shipping crack and a firing crack when the pot is new but once it has been run, it's impossible to say. Fine tooth comb inspection is really important.

My understanding regarding the pot you had in service is that it in fact never leaked which doesn't qualify as a defective pot from EC's point of view. I know this because I have tried to make claims on such issues in the past. I have seen hairline cracks in pots run for very long periods of time with no incident.

Even so, cracks happen and cracks happening early should be dealt with through a complaint process. Steve tells me that he asked for photos and he never received any from you. Without photos, nothing is going to happen. At this point, I doubt that anything will happen since too much time has passed, the pot doesn't seem to be leaking, You can certainly E mail me photos of the pot, with a complaint and I will take it to EC and give it my best representation.

Bringing it to a public forum is not particularly helpful.

I would like to make it clear that I have never seen EC try to cover up a crack of any substance. They cover little ones on the lip and that irritates me to no end. Further, they don't seem to have real difficulties with pots smaller than 19 inch in diameter. Yours I believe was a 16 inch. They do seem to have some issues with voids in their castings which is why we have been talking about the superiority of the castings at High Temp.

I am trying to introduce a product that I believe is superior in its castings and firings in every way. We have worked long and hard on this and are well pleased with the results. We are offering what I believe to be a superior product at a lower price. That I think should be viewed as a good thing but not as an opportunity to attack EC. EC has issues, LaClede certainly has issues. Ipsen had issues.Corhart has issues. I am sure that High Temp will have issues. For years, EC was the low cost alternative to LaClede. They have certainly gotten more expensive in a relatively short period of time. I am offering an alternative to that. There are people who are totally committed to La Clede and there are people who are totally committed to EC. There are people who hate all of them. They all try, some do better than others at one time or another. Life goes on. These are crucibles for melting glass and are frequently abused badly by the users. If I can find evidence that the user didn't bash the pot, I try to represent that to the manufacturer. It's one of the advantages of buying the pot through me. At that point you have a track record. When you buy direct, you pay the same price but you are on your own if there is a problem. It's up to the consumer as to how they want to proceed.

But I don't believe EC is fatally flawed at all. I just have a new alternative.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Casanova View Post
Congratulations Pete!


Will you be making the 22 x 13 or was demand too light to warrant it?
************

There were two 22 inch pots. One was round bottomed and one was shaped like a cone. I haven't sold the conic one in years. There is a mold in the works that Steve is making for a pot that will hold 200 lbs which is very close to the capacity of the 22 inch pot with the round bottom. We never did sell very many pots of that size. I can still get it but my gut reaction is to buy the 24 inch pot from High Temp which is close to the price of the 22 inch pot from EC. Then, don't fill it all the way, go home early and get some sleep for a change.

Are you still doing land development Pat?
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:22 AM
Kenny Pieper Kenny Pieper is offline
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Pete any Idea what a mold charge would be if I had a specific pot size that I wanted produced. I'm thinking of a color pot around 9 3/4" x 10" high
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:54 AM
Virgil Jones Virgil Jones is offline
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Thanks for your response, Pete.

First I will say that I did not bring it the public forum...I woke up this morning to find Steve's comments:
"The E.C. pots would come with a layer of slip smeared over the entire pot to hide defects like lip dings and hairline cracks in the potwall, the large sizes were especially bad. Les at High Temp will simply not allow it. If a pot is bad in any way they will not knowingly release it."
Having run tank furnaces for years and being new to freestanding pots with my new Stadelman furnace that was a comment that got my immediate attention.
In my discussion with you concerning the initial sighting of the crack you asked for pictures, which I sent to you. At running temp my camera couldn't catch it...possibly my photographic skills. At that time you said the horizontal line was a "batching line" and not to worry about it. You also said the vertical line might or might not be a problem for a long time. After running the new furnace for less than two months the vertical crack is very evident at any temp. In talking to Steve, he was surprised I was changing it before it actually leaked. My thoughts are that I can't afford surprises in the middle of production AND that you said it could go at any time (now or later), BUT, that it WOULD leak.
I will photograph the pot after I take it out of the furnace, which I'm in the process of doing today. I will send both you and Steve the Photos.
Let me say that I do appreciate both this forum and my new furnace. I will pursue the pot issue "off the air".
Thanks, Virgil




The only "camouflage" I ever see on EC pots is at the rims where they try to cover up small bite size munches in the lip Virgil. They irritate me because it doesn't make the "munch" go away. What should be happening there is that the "munch" shouldn't exist in the first place in my opinion and that trying to cover it up doesn't inspire much confidence either. EC however does not think that this is a serious problem and will not warranty it. I have yet to see a "munch" actually cause a failure of a pot.

I never know about cracks. EC takes the position that you need to inspect the pot extremely carefully when you receive it. Their position is that it may have been cracked in shipping. Maybe true, maybe not true. I can usually tell the difference between a shipping crack and a firing crack when the pot is new but once it has been run, it's impossible to say. Fine tooth comb inspection is really important.

My understanding regarding the pot you had in service is that it in fact never leaked which doesn't qualify as a defective pot from EC's point of view. I know this because I have tried to make claims on such issues in the past. I have seen hairline cracks in pots run for very long periods of time with no incident.

Even so, cracks happen and cracks happening early should be dealt with through a complaint process. Steve tells me that he asked for photos and he never received any from you. Without photos, nothing is going to happen. At this point, I doubt that anything will happen since too much time has passed, the pot doesn't seem to be leaking, You can certainly E mail me photos of the pot, with a complaint and I will take it to EC and give it my best representation.

Bringing it to a public forum is not particularly helpful.

I would like to make it clear that I have never seen EC try to cover up a crack of any substance. They cover little ones on the lip and that irritates me to no end. Further, they don't seem to have real difficulties with pots smaller than 19 inch in diameter. Yours I believe was a 16 inch. They do seem to have some issues with voids in their castings which is why we have been talking about the superiority of the castings at High Temp.

I am trying to introduce a product that I believe is superior in its castings and firings in every way. We have worked long and hard on this and are well pleased with the results. We are offering what I believe to be a superior product at a lower price. That I think should be viewed as a good thing but not as an opportunity to attack EC. EC has issues, LaClede certainly has issues. Ipsen had issues.Corhart has issues. I am sure that High Temp will have issues. For years, EC was the low cost alternative to LaClede. They have certainly gotten more expensive in a relatively short period of time. I am offering an alternative to that. There are people who are totally committed to La Clede and there are people who are totally committed to EC. There are people who hate all of them. They all try, some do better than others at one time or another. Life goes on. These are crucibles for melting glass and are frequently abused badly by the users. If I can find evidence that the user didn't bash the pot, I try to represent that to the manufacturer. It's one of the advantages of buying the pot through me. At that point you have a track record. When you buy direct, you pay the same price but you are on your own if there is a problem. It's up to the consumer as to how they want to proceed.

But I don't believe EC is fatally flawed at all. I just have a new alternative.[/quote]
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Old 06-28-2008, 02:15 PM
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True, initial one on one communication with supplier/manufacturer is the first line of communication but if that proves to be unsatisfactory then we all need to be made aware. I think a public forum IS a good place to discuss problems that may affect others, whether it is with crucibles, galleries, software, shows, knock offs, etc, etc, etc. It's not just dirty laundry, it adds the power of numbers and other opinions to help resolve issues that may be an issue that others have encountered. We're all in this hot little boat together.
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Old 06-28-2008, 02:32 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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No product is perfect. That being said, the EC pots were a huge jump in quality from laclede. When i say quality, I done mean appearance, I mean longevity, glass quality, and tolerance to heat shock.. I could care less what the thing looks like around the lip... I usually wear a notch on the pot from gathering anyway.
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:25 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I recall a photo that showed absolutely nothing that I could take back to EC and they do require a good photo. Most people can take good photos if they have to. I have never seen an EC pot crack absolutely horizontally unless it was really worn. Shipping cracks are big and ugly for the most part and they are not very hard to spot. It is amazing to me how few people inspect their pots when they arrive for damage and that is the time it needs to be done. EC won't warranty a cracked pot. They will warranty a pot that has voids in the casting but you never see them until the pot suddenly fails. Then they prorate the amount of time the pot was in service based on a total anticipated life of 10 months, assuming weekly charges.

Actually, it is amazing to me that they warranty at all. La Clede doesn't do it, Ipsen didn't do it and EC didn't do it until I made a lot of noise about it. Even so, it is limited since they cannot control how a pot is used. I rarely get a crack claim Through QC and that's a fact. Occasionally, they honor a claim that I find to be extremely dubious but I still submit it. As Eben said, quality was a major issue for him with LaClede yet tons of people still buy them and still pay premium prices compared to EC.

My point in this thread was (again) that I have been working long and hard to get a crucible made that I think is going to be the best quality out there. And it will cost less. I

That should be good news.
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Old 06-29-2008, 08:01 AM
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I see a 19" pot, but no 16" pot that is similar to the 108lb?
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:08 AM
Virgil Jones Virgil Jones is offline
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Pete, since you decided to continue my pot situation "on the air", I have a comment and couple of questions.

The pot came in the furnace...no inspection possible.

If, as Steve said previously:
"The E.C. pots would come with a layer of slip smeared over the entire pot to hide defects like lip dings and hairline cracks in the potwall",
how does one detect cracks in the pre-installation inspection?
Are the three pots I just purchased from you covered with slip? If so, AND they do appear to be, how do I inspect them for cracks,etc. that are not shipping related?

TO BE CLEAR...I am very pleased with my Stadelman furnace, I will say that Steve is doing his best to handle my complaint in a professional manner. Also, his other "customer service" has been great.

Virgil




Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
I recall a photo that showed absolutely nothing that I could take back to EC and they do require a good photo. Most people can take good photos if they have to. I have never seen an EC pot crack absolutely horizontally unless it was really worn. Shipping cracks are big and ugly for the most part and they are not very hard to spot. It is amazing to me how few people inspect their pots when they arrive for damage and that is the time it needs to be done. EC won't warranty a cracked pot. They will warranty a pot that has voids in the casting but you never see them until the pot suddenly fails. Then they prorate the amount of time the pot was in service based on a total anticipated life of 10 months, assuming weekly charges.

Actually, it is amazing to me that they warranty at all. La Clede doesn't do it, Ipsen didn't do it and EC didn't do it until I made a lot of noise about it. Even so, it is limited since they cannot control how a pot is used. I rarely get a crack claim Through QC and that's a fact. Occasionally, they honor a claim that I find to be extremely dubious but I still submit it. As Eben said, quality was a major issue for him with LaClede yet tons of people still buy them and still pay premium prices compared to EC.

My point in this thread was (again) that I have been working long and hard to get a crucible made that I think is going to be the best quality out there. And it will cost less. I

That should be good news.
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:19 AM
Virgil Jones Virgil Jones is offline
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Being a complete novice to pots, I donít know what is passable and what is not. At this point I guess I need an education. I prefer that education to cost me as little production time as possible.

As I inspect the three new pots again.

A revision in the previous post: The pots seem to have slip on spots on the top and the lower inside has kind of a swirl affect and rumply bottoms. I donít know if this is part of the casting process or post casting. I thought the swirl affect was the slip covering talked about earlier, but, might have assumed to quickly.

What are the black spots surrounded by a brown halo imbedded on the inside of the pots? Is this a problem?

One pot has a pencil mark on the outside leading to the lip. On the inside corner of the lip from that pencil line there is an approx. half by eighth inch spot that that looks like it is ready to chip out. Is this a problem?

On another pot there is a very tiny crack on the top of the pot, by the inside wall. It travels that corner approx. 1/8 to a ľ inch. Touching that crack and going about 1 ľ inches down inside the pot is a raised rough line. Is this a problem?

Thanks for your help and patience.
Virgil
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Old 06-29-2008, 08:33 PM
Patrick Casanova Patrick Casanova is offline
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Thanks Pete, I'll probably go down in size. Ever since seeing your furnace in Santa Fe I've been intrigued by your concept for multiple pots in a single furnace.

Thank God we weren't in the Land Development business! The company that I went back to work for is a High End Custom Home builder. They've been doing it since the late 70's. And in times like these it's their reputation and quality is what is keeping people working. In our market place every trade is taking work just to keep their good people employed and cover the bare overhead. But it has been brutal, a lot of really good companies are going down. I didn't close my studio, I quit wholesale. I've been blessed to have my glass to help off set things. Not that glass is flying off the shelves... but because of working for them for our livelihood, it allowed me to focus on developing new work and new markets. Oh, and to enjoy glass again!
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Old 06-29-2008, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil Jones View Post
Being a complete novice to pots, I donít know what is passable and what is not. At this point I guess I need an education. I prefer that education to cost me as little production time as possible.

As I inspect the three new pots again.

A revision in the previous post: The pots seem to have slip on spots on the top and the lower inside has kind of a swirl affect and rumply bottoms. I donít know if this is part of the casting process or post casting. I thought the swirl affect was the slip covering talked about earlier, but, might have assumed to quickly.

What are the black spots surrounded by a brown halo imbedded on the inside of the pots? Is this a problem?

One pot has a pencil mark on the outside leading to the lip. On the inside corner of the lip from that pencil line there is an approx. half by eighth inch spot that that looks like it is ready to chip out. Is this a problem?

On another pot there is a very tiny crack on the top of the pot, by the inside wall. It travels that corner approx. 1/8 to a ľ inch. Touching that crack and going about 1 ľ inches down inside the pot is a raised rough line. Is this a problem?

Thanks for your help and patience.
Virgil
******************

The black spots are not unusual in a crucible. They will not affect performance.

EC puts the slip on to cover cosmetic blemishes on the pot and sometimes to cover non consequential chips at the lip area. This irritates me to no end. As long as they are confined to the lip they are not an issue.

It is not possible to put the slip on a crack and to sucessfully cover a crack. You will still see the crack if one exists. Putting the slip over such a thing is stupid and doesn't work. I really don't see junk like that as frequently as this thread might suggest.

The entire pot is not covered with slip. The slip is a noticably different shade of white. It was added after the pot was fired. You can't miss it.

The thing ready to chip out will not be a problem.

The rumply bottom is part of the casting process.

When you get the pot out of the furnace that has the running crack in it, take a good photo of it and I will represent you to EC. Again, they don't respond well to cracks but we can try. The photo has to be good or it is a total waste of time. One of the troubles with trying to do this is that the time track on the pot gets lost easily. The pot in question could have been shipped to Steve last year and sat around. Then it goes out with your furnace . More time passes. Then there are problems and I file a complaint. EC asks where the pot came from. Who Knows? Again this doesn't happen all that often. With High Temp we are getting superior castings.

Steve and I have worked out a way to keep track of the pots. Now he writes on the pot the invoice number that was tied to the pot. That way we know its history. Its a live and learn process.
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:04 PM
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There will be a 16 inch pot from High Temp. Look for it in the fall. I still have 16 inch pots from EC.

Kenny: You would have to buy a lot of pots to get High Temp to make a mold for a special pot. I have to wait six months to get molds made. EC will do it for five hundred bucks. Let me look at the EC pot list and see what might be close to the one you want. They can handle smaller pots fine.

Steve is making a mold for a 22 inch pot. Apparantly he has nothing to do at night.
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:54 PM
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Glenn Randle Glenn Randle is offline
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34 inch pot (600lb) $1945.00
28 inch pot (400lb) $1362.00 AVAILABLE AUG'08
24 inch pot (270lb ) $ 675.00
19 inch pot (145 lb) $ 515.00 AVAILABLE SEPT '08


The prices are sort of funny with the various sizes. The 270 is a "steal",....or I guess you could see the others as pricey.
I'm sure everyone has there reasons for running the pot(s) they choose, but I'd have a hard time paying more than double for a 400 when you could have 2 270's which are almost as large as the 600 (in capacity). I guess the furnace to hold them would be quite a bit larger.
I wonder why the prices aren't more even, relative to capacity?

Btw,
I've run EC pots with fine cracks, some 2/3's down the side without any trouble. I admit it's hard on the nerves, but Pete/EC adjusted the price and I just ordered another spare. I doubt anyone here has abused any pot more than I have the ECs. 2200f to 850f in about 6 hours, full blower & no fuel! I'd call that ABUSE! It happened to the same pot multiple times, flame impingement killed my early pots. Never had issues with thermal shock.
I'm just saying this to let you know not to worry. I'm not paid for endorsements.

I'm glad to hear Pete's found another great product to offer. Competition is good. Sometimes one supplier might be out of stock and the competitor will have just what you need. It's good for prices too. Freight might make the difference for us on the east coast.

Pete, any idea what is used as a binder for the tabular alumina? I priced it a while ago from Remet and but they "couldn't" tell me the binder to use. It's always seemed like the interior castings of a glass furnace should be made from something as "bomb-proof" as the crucibles we use. Would colloidal alumina work? Or is it something else?
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:30 AM
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Brian Gingras Brian Gingras is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
There will be a 16 inch pot from High Temp. Look for it in the fall. I still have 16 inch pots from EC.

Kenny: You would have to buy a lot of pots to get High Temp to make a mold for a special pot. I have to wait six months to get molds made. EC will do it for five hundred bucks. Let me look at the EC pot list and see what might be close to the one you want. They can handle smaller pots fine.

Steve is making a mold for a 22 inch pot. Apparantly he has nothing to do at night.
thanks pete, I love my EC pots, but it's always good to have an alternative.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:47 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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The binder for tabular alumina in this instance is kyanite which converts to mullite at 2150F. Naturally occurring mullite is really rare. You could add calcium aluminate as a cement binder if you wanted to. It is the binder in castables. I actually sell both products.

We didn't "find " the product, we developed it in partnership with High Temp. It has been in the works for quite some time. We are a small project in a very big company. They have made me the exclusive distributor for the product line. The dedication to quality control at High Temp amazes me.

The bigger the pot, the lower the sales, making it more expensive to justify the costs for developing the mold which are extensive if you do it right. I sell 20 270 lb pots for every 1 400 lb pot. The risks involved in firing big things is far greater, involving really long soak times before 212F and also 1000F. Currently the price of alumina is changing every month where it used to be priced once a year. Finally, the big pots take up far more room in the kiln and take longer firing times which cost more as well. These kilns are not small. Forklifts can drive into them and we only work in the small casting shop!

Finally, for the glass shops which find these larger pots appropriate, their true cost is in the cost of going to high temperatures to melt, coupled with the down time for production that they have when they are melting , not working. One shop I supply with the 34 inch pot runs two of those furnaces and they are charged twice a week each. It's a matter of scale. Lino will go through one of the those pots in a single sitting.

But I do agree with you that the 270lb 24 inch pot is the single most efficient for the small studio owner. When people want the 22 inch pot, which is rare, I recommend buying the 24 inch instead and simply not filling it all the way. The real time spent charging a pot is in the last two inches of glass, which always seem to take forever. I prefer putting a last big charge on, setting the controller and going home to sleep. If the glass is down a bit, I still have 225 lbs of good stuff.

Finally, there is no separation of material types in a crucible. There are coarse tabs and very fine particles. When the pot is vibrated, the fines come to the surface of the pots in the molds. The big stuff that prevents thermal shock is hiding out in the middle of the pot. When a pot begins to fail, the fines are being consumed by the glass itself and the big stuff gets exposed. This creates a disproportionate surface area exposing the glass in the pot to far more alumina surface than the new smooth pot had. Subsequently, cords start to form and they are pretty much unavoidable. The pot is failing . This is basically why I don't like investing a crucible. The investment stops an actual leak but the glass is still pretty crappy by my standards. Pots are not engineered to be permanent installations. 70 to 90 charges is what to expect if you want continually good glass which is the whole point of a pot furnace over a tank.
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