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  #26  
Old 07-27-2020, 04:03 PM
Art Freas Art Freas is offline
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I have done a lot of building with Habitat for Humanity as a builder and a house leader. The tool belt is a wonderful metaphor for this discussion. Time, weight, comfort, and gravity have a way of getting you to focus on what are the essential tools in your tool belt. When I started I looked like a pack mule going across the continent, after a while the impact of being a pack mule settled in. As time went by I really streamlined. In the end I carried a hammer, multibit screwdriver, small diagonal cutters, small pliers, small gooseneck pliers, three nail punches, two pencils, very small "L" saddle, tape measure, small framing square, block plane, and small notebook. All were good high quality tools, all were as light and small as possible. 95% of the time I had what I needed on me, made the day way better. The moral here, get good stuff, get what you have to have, get really good with what you have, and maintain what you have. I think that a vast majority of power tools get sold because people don't know how to sharpen and maintain the hand tools.
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  #27  
Old 07-27-2020, 04:48 PM
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So, if a tool is something that helps you make something else, is food a tool? How about raw Sushi? I don't see it as a raw material.
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  #28  
Old 07-27-2020, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
So, if a tool is something that helps you make something else, is food a tool? How about raw Sushi? I don't see it as a raw material.
Really interesting question. Food maintains one of your primary tools. Just like sharpening. When planning a habitat build food, water, bathrooms, and protection from weather are a primary concern. They are even enough of a concern that when I would take youth on a build one of the roles the youth would take on is water police, making sure everyone is drinking enough and looks ok.
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  #29  
Old 07-27-2020, 06:55 PM
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So, if food might be a tool, what about the elements in the goop? Are they "Food" for the compound? What happens if that "food" isn't there?

Is propane "Food" for glass. It certainly makes you create something.
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  #30  
Old 07-28-2020, 04:13 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
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Seriously this has gone off the rails
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  #31  
Old 07-28-2020, 05:19 PM
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I'm really happy off the Socratic rails. It beats talking about the subtle differences over pumpkins.
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  #32  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:58 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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But if I make my pumpkins extra shiny to eek a couple more shekels off the grey hairs to fund what I want to make, are they not tools to make other work?
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  #33  
Old 07-29-2020, 12:28 PM
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Anything could potentially be construed as a tool depending upon its context and utilization.
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  #34  
Old 07-29-2020, 01:09 PM
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Several years ago on Christmas eve one of our big fir trees fell over (rotated on the root ball) and took out one shed (but missed the lawn tractor by inches) and also took down the Arbutus tree.

I used my new (Christmas present) 12" bandsaw to cut the reclaimed wood (arbutus, spruce and some fir) into planks. Once seasoned it makes nice paddles. This one was just handy, but the rest will be shaped, also by the bandsaw.

So the bandsaw is a tool that can make tools. Power of tools squared (or something like that).

It's hot here in the shed these days too.
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  #35  
Old 07-29-2020, 02:03 PM
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I'd be inclined to think your assistant is a tool then and further, your tool thinks it's an artist. There's gonna be trouble...
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  #36  
Old 07-29-2020, 03:31 PM
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Donald Trump?
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  #37  
Old 07-29-2020, 04:14 PM
John Riepma John Riepma is online now
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In the right situation a paperweight in a tube sock is an awesome tool.
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  #38  
Old 07-30-2020, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Riepma View Post
In the right situation a paperweight in a tube sock is an awesome tool.
****
That's true John. I am now considering the notion that an artist who wants to learn about glass technique arrives on the scene as a raw material that with training can become a tool and then potentially convert into an artist again. It depends entirely on what they do with their middle name. Tout it, and you stand a chance.

I realize the middle name part is a stretch so far, but not the rest of it.
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  #39  
Old 07-30-2020, 07:54 AM
Don Burt Don Burt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
So, if a tool is something that helps you make something else, is food a tool? How about raw Sushi? I don't see it as a raw material.
I don't think 'making', 'moving', 'securing', 'cleaning' or any of that motion and material stuff is essential to the notion of toolness. Mathematicians, poets, writers, teachers use abstract tools to do abstract stuff. An app often will have a toolbar. I like the inclusive version of toolness. A discreet something used to accomplish a goal.
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  #40  
Old 07-30-2020, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Burt View Post
A discreet something used to accomplish a goal.
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Well OK , Can't make glass art without the goop. Glass as a raw material fits that definition, so now glass can be a tool?
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  #41  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:17 PM
Don Burt Don Burt is offline
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no that ruins everything. raw material is a concept different than and essential to the concept of tool. my earlier definition won't work for raw material without making the words less useful. I guess there must be an entity which is tooled, and an entity which is the tool. There is something missing: 'Tool: a discrete something used to manipulate a something toward a goal' . I'm not happy with that but this is not my wheelhouse. I'm better at limericks.
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  #42  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:46 PM
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Glass untransformed is a raw material. If I transform the glass in to a product then that product may be a tool itself. An example would be a glass lens used to focus a laser used to etch, or a measuring cup used to cook with.
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  #43  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:50 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
****
Well OK , Can't make glass art without the goop. Glass as a raw material fits that definition, so now glass can be a tool?
How can you make something without any materials ?
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  #44  
Old 07-31-2020, 09:44 AM
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Sometimes a raw material can be a tool. E.g. I use a piece of boro rod as a tool to pick up another piece of boro.

... and then I can use that tool as raw material by incorporating it into the form
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  #45  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:58 AM
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eventually people will see the direct link to a career in the law.
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  #46  
Old 08-01-2020, 06:53 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
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What does that mean?
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  #47  
Old 08-03-2020, 07:48 AM
Steve Beckwith Steve Beckwith is offline
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[quote=Don Burt;148422 I'm better at limericks.[/QUOTE]

There once was a man from Nantuckett...

Last edited by Steve Beckwith; 08-03-2020 at 07:56 AM.
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  #48  
Old 08-03-2020, 07:52 AM
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Who had a tool so long...
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  #49  
Old 08-07-2020, 05:59 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
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What the hell are you talking about?
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  #50  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:03 PM
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Michael, this is a thread which requires an understanding of English slang as well as an understanding of an overly bored philosophy grad, being me. Write very little into it, trust me.

I simply got people to define an Art school major as a tool. Even worse, as a raw material. I'm happy. Now? I'm back to defeating the crazed fascist leader of the free world, or what's left of it .

I spend much of my time elsewhere.
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