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  #26  
Old 08-18-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley Howes View Post
Im going to take a stab at this sulphur blue either tonight or tomorrow, depends on what time I finish my drive back to Alfred. My big question is how much sulphur should I use? I’m thinking between 1-5% which is probably over kill but I have no idea. I’m planning on mortaring the sulphur with some boric acid. The sulphur we have is as chips but clumps together unbelievably in the mortar. From there, I’ll mix it into the rest of the boric acid and charge it. Any thoughts?
****
Thats an awful lot of sulfur. Stick to 1% and see what you get besides a potentially ruined crucible. You might consider covering the pot.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:09 PM
Paul Stout Paul Stout is offline
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Thanks for the heads up on the calcium.
Regarding Moles, Ive read a chapter in a chemistry book about moles and will have to read it a dozen more times to see how I could actually use the information. I kind of get the idea but not so much that I can make use of it yet. Ill study it more.
I agree that the presence of so much alkali could present a problem. This is probably the first hurdle: how to sufficiently acidify the glass.
regarding the elemental sulfur I thought it was yellow also but according to Weyl:"Polysulfides as a rule are stable only in alkaline media and decompose fairly rapidly when the medium is acidified. If acid is poured into a polysulfide solution the decomposition leads to hydrogen sulfide and elementary sulfur. the latter aggregates, leading to colloidal and macroscopic particles. The same phenomenon can be observed in glasses if a polysulfide containing melt is mixed with a strongly acidic oxide, such as B2O3 or P2O5." and later "This blue color, being due to elementary sulfur, cannot be obtained in glasses which contain major amounts of zinc, cadmium or other ions of heavy metals with an affinity for sulfur." He does not explain how much the medium needs to be acidified or if the polysulfides form again if re-exposed to an alkali media.
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  #28  
Old 08-18-2019, 06:25 PM
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well, start with the lack of commercial applications. True of silver glasses amongst others.

you are in an uphill battle which I doubt will end well.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:53 PM
Paul Stout Paul Stout is offline
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I hear you, I see this as an experiment that will facilitate my learning rather than necessarily developing anything of consequence. Being new to the chemical approach towards glass Iím content with failed experiments if they help me better understand WTF is happening. I realize Iím pretty fortunate to be in a position to be able to say that. I love the suggestion of experimenting with different fluxes and stabilizers and I intend to pursue that also. With regards to commercial application for silver it seems Satava found a pretty good application with his jellyís. And donít most, if not all, luster glasses contain silver? Or perhaps youíre referring to colored rods whose primary colorant is silver?
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  #30  
Old 08-19-2019, 08:09 AM
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keep in mind that sulfur is really toxic. The fumes tend to shut your airway down and you choke to death. I would encourage you to start small and see what happens. Too much won't really teach you anything. If you've ever been near a volcano, think brimstone, think sulfur. It won't go away easily either. I can't say what it will do to the pot

Ricks silver veil work was not uncommon in the seventies. Nick Labino was doing a lot of it, Bob Stephan did as well. I liked Paul Manner's veils the best. There were others. It's certainly not hard, not toxic and really, not expensive. Rick has not changed his work in forever. I don't know where he sells but he certainly seems to do well.

Real luster glasses have a lot of lead in them along with silver. Most rod glasses follow that formulation. Plating out silver requires some nitrates which I think supresses the strand tendency in that type glass and accomodates surface reduction.
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  #31  
Old 08-21-2019, 03:20 PM
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So I read both Weyl and Volf on sulfur today and the blue tone is reduced to one sentence in the sulfur section of Volf. The conditions for making an acidic glass are formidable and will best happen in a phosphate which is acidic but it looks to be one of those longshots to me. I mean there are discussion of making rubies with cobalt but not in my shop.

What did impress me was looking at Strontium. Neither gives it much time when discussing phosphates and I'm not at all clear how Dave Bross came to the conclusions he did regarding replacing the calcium with Strontium, but he did it. Way to go Dave. That was good work.
At one point I suggested it to Croucher but he indicated that no one within 10,000 miles of him used it and cost would be prohibitive. Now John L is in Oakland even though John C has retired and working in his son's shop but John indicated to me recently that they had found the opalescense far denser with strontium as opposed to calcium so, again, great work.

What also strikes me in both books is that they really have the same problems that we have with a number of colorants. Silver is given a wide birth if you look to the calcedonias. Weyl does better with copper rubies than Volf does, both dance around phosphates. Many of the arguments then remain the arguments today. I remember once when John C and I were sitting around at Corning blathering with each other and John in passing said " Well I guess we proved that you certainly can melt lead crystal in an open hearth."

He was right. They used to say it couldn't be done. Had to be closed pots. Both of us think the phosphates are the last great mysteries in melts. The current boro work is really exciting and breaks so many barriers on melting cullet for color. If any of you go on with this, changing out the stabilizers is going to find you in a gold mine. I hope to spend more time on this as I find more free time from product.
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  #32  
Old 12-17-2019, 03:22 PM
Paul Thompson Paul Thompson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eben Horton View Post
Sex toy blue would sell, but perhaps you have to make the name more artsy... for example dale chihuly renamed cooper ruby to oxblood.


Just thinking out loud.
And this thread was way before Watchmen Episode 3. Somebody has ESP.
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  #33  
Old 12-19-2019, 04:05 PM
Art Freas Art Freas is offline
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"Ive read a chapter in a chemistry book about moles and will have to read it a dozen more times to see how I could actually use the information"

When you read moles think dozens and chicken eggs.

If I have a dozen eggs and know their weight I can figure if they are small, medium, or large eggs.

If I have a certain weight of eggs and know if they are large, medium, or small I can figure how many I have.

If I have a dozen eggs I can only make a dozen fried eggs. If I have a dozen fried eggs I can make a dozen fried egg sandwiches and need two dozen pieces of bread.

If I have a mole of silver I know how much it weighs.

If I the weight of the silver I know how many moles I have.

If I know the weight of a pure batch of something and know how many I have I can figure what it is. (i.e. silver vs tin)

If I have one mole of oxygen and want to make one mole of water I know I need two moles of hydrogen.

Moles are just like dozens.
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  #34  
Old 03-07-2021, 07:37 PM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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The strontium discovery was more research than chemistry skill.

After much failure trying to get a smooth phosphate I started digging in the US patent office.
I guessed Corning had probably figured this out long ago and that going way back they were patenting their discoveries instead of just sitting on them to prevent theft.

The trick is finding the hidden info.

All of the patents on file prior to a certain date will not show up in search because they ran out of funds before they could catalog them.

Where they will show up is in the listing of patents listed on the front page of a patent as prior art contributing to that patent. These will be as a link to that prior patent.

I dug through a pile of patents with any mention of Corning along with phosphate or phosphorous and glass.
The digging paid off in the Corning patent that told exactly what worked, what caused crystalization and the outer limits for those materials.

I don't remember strontium being listed in the patent itself but a quick trip down the 2nd column of the periodic table where all the things mentioned in the patent were made strontium stand out as the one non-toxic material that could be put into play here.
A quick check with a pottery supplier revealed it was inexpensive and easily available.

The rest is history, just a bunch of melts to dial it in.

In hindsight I realized I missed a big clue early on. The only historical phosphates in regular use were melted in lead glasses....which never had any calcium in them.

Had I been looking for what was missing as well as what went in I might have caught on way earlier.

I would heartily suggest using this "check the prior art listings" research trick in the patents if you're working on something unusual, different or obsolete. Someone may have already gone down that road and saved you a whole lot of effort.
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  #35  
Old 03-08-2021, 07:06 AM
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I was reading about Paul Mendeleev quite recently. He is credited with ordering the periodic table right abut 1860. At that time, there were something like 60 known elements and Mendeleev saw the pattern of weights of known atoms and their similarities. In the endgame of that he had a dream about sequencing, particularly in the mettaloid section which occupies many columns and rows in the chart. He awoke from a dream ordering them and it vanished on him. That night he put a pad and pencil by his bedside and the same dream occurred. He woke and immediately wrote it down. The elements fell into place rapidly. What he did not anticipate was that many would be radioactive.
There were mathematical gaps in the chart and Mendeleev was able to predict where new discoveries would be placed. He was right.

When we first went to Shanghai, we had enormous difficulty communicating in the chemistry. Finally, Eveline went to a website and downloaded the periodic table in Mandarin. From that point it was very straightforward. I still have the Shanghai manual in the shop listing every formula I wrote over there, all in Kanshii Mandarin characters. It's very cool.

Croucher and I had this conversation about strontium when Dave had submitted this formulation. Dave says it was cheap and I think these days it's around $1.75 lb. John said that there wasn't an industry within 10,000 miles that used it and it would not be possible. That old adage of making glass with materials in your own neighborhood are true.
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  #36  
Old 03-09-2021, 05:24 PM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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Always loved the story about Mendeleev and discovering the table.

There's more to be done with Strontium.

Going from memory here so maybe wrong here and there...

Volf says it's an ideal lead substitute for about 1/2 the lead content and I don't think he mentioned what went wrong past 1/2.

He definitely warned that your alumina or whatever else used for devit prevention had better be right.

Now that lead isn't available, and who wants to work with it anyway, there's exploration to be done as to what strontium might do as a full on sub for the lead.

At under $2 a pound now it's still way cheaper than lead was, adjusting for the massive loss of value in our money over the years.
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  #37  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:24 PM
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I can still buy lead in Shanghai for .90lb. That's from Hammond. Hammond here? well bucko, Try nearer to $30.00 lb if you can find it. . I did buy 300 lbs last summer and Eben has it stored. It cost $100 for 300 lbs, about what I'm willing to pay and now I have a lifetime supply which should tell you something.

What is below Silver gold and copper in the 7th column intrigues me. It's not accessible but I don't know if it's radioactive. The replacement issues with Strontium is really nice if you don't mind the price difference with calcium. I don't mind but I don't melt a lot.
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  #38  
Old 03-11-2021, 05:54 PM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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Unobtainium, eh?


It almost doesn't exist for real:

https://hobart.k12.in.us/ksms/Period...rmstadtium.htm


Seems to be very radioactive:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmstadtium
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