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  #51  
Old 03-10-2021, 02:36 PM
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we used to have a slot in the flue, which was seven feet tall and in the slot went a piece of kiln shelf, marked in inches so we could repeat settings that were always entered in a notebook which recorded the temp and air settings. In the wall of the combustion chamber, we had a flue gas analyzer. Where did that come from? We bought it with the proceeds from the first printing of The Hot Glass Information Exchange. It used to pass around between John Bingham, Henry Summa and me for fine tuning . I'm no longer that OCD.
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  #52  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:36 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is online now
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Yes Travis, those pictures look like a typical Japanese complicated solution to a easy problem - what exactly do the flue doors do? Why is there no front to the furnace?
I understand that is difficult to answer, because the guys building it are just copying some other furnace and they dont have a clue what they are doing

Last edited by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig; 03-10-2021 at 09:43 PM.
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  #53  
Old 03-31-2021, 08:01 AM
Travis Frink Travis Frink is online now
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Update

The furnace is finally finished and melting beautiful glass. It seems to be operating at similar burner output percentage as before the rebuild. So, maybe a good sign? The outside of the furnace seems hotter than before despite similar insulation plan (same temp insulation in three layers outside castable). Possible difference due to new materials that are “safer?” for people but less effective insulation? Different maker difference? No “fiber cast” coating on the inside of castable furnace chamber?

Thank you all who offered helpful insights.

I was impressed by how much subtle changes really do make big changes in how the furnace works. All reheats are done in the furnace itself and I noticed a big difference in where the heat was concentrated around the door/reheating area especially.
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  #54  
Old 03-31-2021, 08:16 AM
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It is not unlikely that the furnace has retained some fraction of moisture in being rebuilt and that will dissipate. Water is certainly a heat transfer highway.

On the other hand, it may just be less effective insulation. If you're getting great glass, that should be enough.
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  #55  
Old 03-31-2021, 04:17 PM
Travis Frink Travis Frink is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
It is not unlikely that the furnace has retained some fraction of moisture in being rebuilt and that will dissipate. Water is certainly a heat transfer highway.
Yes. I notice steam coming off the outside surface during the heat up phase and there certainly was a significant difference between areas that felt damp and those that felt dry.
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  #56  
Old 04-01-2021, 07:16 AM
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If you heat too fast, the steam expansion will crack the furnace.
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  #57  
Old 04-01-2021, 03:20 PM
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Most of the castables are heavy in hydrates. Hydrates trap water until heated and may seem dry.

https://www.britannica.com/science/hydrate

Last edited by Art Freas; 04-01-2021 at 05:30 PM.
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  #58  
Old 04-01-2021, 05:14 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is online now
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As I said , they dont have a clue what they are doing
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  #59  
Old 04-02-2021, 08:44 AM
Travis Frink Travis Frink is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig View Post
As I said , they dont have a clue what they are doing
I’m curious why you’re so negative here.
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  #60  
Old 04-02-2021, 08:57 AM
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I don't think it's not having a clue at all.I see a good faith effort to replace an aging furnace. I worry far more over people buying Paragon Kilns as glass furnaces.

The purpose of craftweb ultimately is to promote designs and to answer questions intelligently as they come up. That involves seining a lot of information.

The jury will be out on the efficaciousness of the rebuild which comes up with the first fuel bill. In the earlier days, when we would rebuild a furnace and the bill would be lower, we would pat ourselves on the back about the great new design when in reality, the new one was simply tighter than the old model.

It well could be the case that the insulating value of the stuff Travis is using is not anywhere as efficient as it might claim to be. Again, the proof will be in the pudding after a month or so.

These days, if it yields up great glass, I give a quiet "Thank You" and push a rosary bead along.
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  #61  
Old 04-02-2021, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Freas View Post
Most of the castables are heavy in hydrates. Hydrates trap water until heated and may seem dry.

https://www.britannica.com/science/hydrate
****
Chemically bound water has a dead givaway if pushed too hard, it steams. You would see it.
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  #62  
Old 04-02-2021, 09:53 AM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is online now
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If you bring up wet castable too fast, youre not only risking cracking it but also causing a tremendously powerful steam explosion, ruining the furnace and being potentially dangerous to people close by. I blew up a cast furnace door that I had dried in the annealer - but obviously not long enough. The recoil bent the 2”+ angle iron track holding the door
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Old 04-02-2021, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
****
Chemically bound water has a dead givaway if pushed too hard, it steams. You would see it.
Agree my point is that even if something seems dry at room temp there still be a whole bunch of water in the hydrate that could cause damage.
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  #64  
Old 04-02-2021, 12:45 PM
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back to the old mirror trick. Actually in a slow heat mode, a big piece of plastic will gather moisture in a hurry.
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  #65  
Old 04-02-2021, 03:11 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is online now
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Travis- Im negative because I saw saw so much stupiity in Japan
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  #66  
Old 04-02-2021, 03:15 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is online now
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I think ” sun engeneering” is the company that is top in glass. They dont have a clue what they are doing
Complete idiots
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  #67  
Old 04-02-2021, 04:15 PM
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I saw a lot of stupidity in China. Then I watched how fast they learned.
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  #68  
Old 04-02-2021, 04:23 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is online now
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No asians dont learn , they copy
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Old 04-02-2021, 04:28 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is online now
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Kind of they dont understand what they are doing
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Old 04-02-2021, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig View Post
No asians dont learn , they copy
****
Oh really?
Lets all go back to the 2500lb bronze castings when the Italians were doing small ones.
The trouble with discounting the asian community is , essentially racist in its nature, meaning you dismiss an entire culture over time based on race, despite advances made in technology based on race.

It's offensive actually. Culture and technology have advanced based on a number of cultures.

Michael, I don't know if you've spent any time in China, but if you considered it, I suspect your mind might be changed.

I did go. I loved the people and the history. If I was not so old, I would indeed go back and assist in cultural/ changes. I really loved these people as a total culture. Govt, not so much but that's true here and in the EU.
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  #71  
Old 04-02-2021, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig View Post
Kind of they dont understand what they are doing
*** we broke through with the periodic table. Then, it was just math. Then , it was art. Celebrate art.

Just look at the work.
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  #72  
Old 04-02-2021, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
****

The trouble with discounting the asian community is , essentially racist in its nature, meaning you dismiss an entire culture over time based on race, despite advances made in technology based on race.

It's offensive actually..
......C'mon Man, don't get so worked up, you've got losers on here that'll dismiss 80 million americans as "assholes"  then take government handouts to fix their leaky roof 
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  #73  
Old 04-03-2021, 07:13 AM
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I watched my friend Eveline being told she couldn't come in buildings just because she was Chinese. I saw it repeatedly.

She's also a US Citizen with a Doctorate from the Univ of Calif. She ran the accounts for sixteen countries for Ingersoll Rand. They sell a lot of Air conditioners in Asia.

But Trump only lost by 7 million votes, too close in my estimation. The people you cite are paying their back rent or for food. Clearly criminal waste.
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  #74  
Old 04-03-2021, 04:12 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is online now
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Id love to go to China and as you if I was younger Id happily take a job. Im not negative to Japan as such, Im critical to the culture in the work place where individualism and creative thinking is looked down on, and copying and stealing is norm. I was shown a packaging plant and there was a German made press for punching out cardboard boxes that I happen to know something about. Right next to it was an identical machine with no plates on it- whats this I asked the guy showing me around, and he happily replied that they had purchased the German machine but it was very expensive, so they took it apart and copied the whole thing, like it was the most normal thing in the world to do.
I think I would have trouble with all the garbage produced in China, I hear that a lot of outsourcing is being taken home again because of constant quality issues, and Ive had first hand stories about people being ripped off for a fast buck rather than having a long time profitable business.
I have a cheap metal bandsaw with obvious design flaws, but they keep making it that way 20 years on.
Unfortunately it’s becoming difficult to get even things like screws that are not tempered wrong, pipe fittings with so so threads, it’s tragic.
When I worked in Japan there were 6000 foreigners, with work permits in a country of 125 million, mostly all in big international companies. That says a lot how they feel about outside influence.
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  #75  
Old 04-03-2021, 06:30 PM
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and here, we have people buying at Harbor Freight.
I understand the disgust with QC and I understand the disgust with terrible intellectual property respect but I can't help but notice where the glass community came from in its roots.

I take note that Americans have happily embraced Italian technique to the point where the names of canes are in Italian.

Swedish design, I can't claim to know the roots of and I like it. If it had had monetary appeal, I have no doubt that it would be copied here.

Most of the workers in Shanghai are just that. They have a skill and they want to eat. Shanghai workers know as much about NYC as my dog does. They want to eat, sleep in a dry warm place and screw, not necessarily in that order.

The night I showed a hangdog bunch of 40 workers that they had made no mistake in the melt of two different colloidal glasses , as they watched, when I withdrew the two glasses from the gloryhole, The place went nuts. 40 people, all grabbing punties or pipes and all trying to get to the marver I had ordered two days earlier ( I might note that's an italian style) . Eveline asked me then to stay and run the place and I declined but I told her I would help her. I still do when it's called for. Two years back she sent me a remarkably handsome piece in bad need of repair, which I did. The piece was as good as anything I've seen here and it didn't have any Italian roots at all.

My point, walk a mile in their shoes. Growth can take centuries.
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