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Old 03-07-2019, 12:20 PM
charlie jenkins charlie jenkins is offline
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Whats going to happen here?

We're transitioning to Spruce Pine 87 Snowflake next month from years of melting the 2.0.
We suppose that we need to start over when it comes to all our previously made canne and mixed color decorations that we currently apply to the same glass (2.0). But do we really need to be that particular?
We understand that the compatibility should be "the same" and it is a shame to discard the decoration, again.
We did this once before when we transitioned from Spectrum Premium to the 2.0, it sucked. ... but only after discovering two weeks of cracked production.
We'd like to avoid the repeat so we intend to basically start over in the new glass.


Also, I am nervous that the batch will fume on my Sic elements and risk shorting.

Thoughts?

C
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:11 PM
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SP snowflake is just fine grained SP. It contains no borax and will release only carbon dioxide which will not hurt your elements more than anything else. The Linear expansion should be the same as SP87 chunk.

The spectrum products you mention were indeed 1.5 x 10-7th different in expansion, an amount quite sufficient to give you major heartburn. The Spectrum 2,0 is essentially the purloined version of SP87 potentially shorted some lithium but replaced with sodium.

You can get my formula from SP as well in the snowflake. It has the same expansion but is a higher luster, grinds better, resists devit and makes childbirth a pleasure.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:04 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Get ready for a lot of dust. Adapt.
I just recently ordered and asked for small bags I can throw into the furnace. Snowflake is seriously dusty if you pour bags into a tube to charge.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:19 PM
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turn off your burner when you charge.
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:13 AM
charlie jenkins charlie jenkins is offline
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charging with batch

I have an Electric furnace, so no air, no flame.

Also, I understand that the paper from the bags creates more combustion which makes more turbulence. I intend to build a type of funnel-shovel that will allow me to pour from the bag(s), through the "shunnel" to empty the bag(s) straight into the furnace.....I hope.

Dust is a very big concern for us. So I may be getting a HEPA vacuum exclusively for batch clean ups too.
And maybe going to construct a hood over the furnace so as to divert ANY bad air directly to the outside.

C
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:56 AM
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I use a snowflake of my own formula now from SP in a gas unit and have no problems. I suspect Eben has some issues since he's using a pipe which acts like a flue. I would not run a furnace without it being under a hood. Bags in an electric furnace is not going to go well ever.

For cleanups? I have a big box of oiled sawdust from the janitorial supply. It works really really well.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:58 PM
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Oiled sawdust (sweeping compound) should be in everyone's shop. A new set of lungs is way more expensive. You only get one brain.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:48 AM
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Pete, are you saying 2.0 is compatible with SP? We are in the same boat. Going to batch. We got rid of everything (cane, murrini) made with Spectrum original when we switched to 2.0. and we will be switching to SP batch in the fall.
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Old 03-10-2019, 12:45 PM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is offline
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I would keep the cane/murrini/whatever parts made with the old glass and try it out and see how it goes incorporating it with the new glass that will be in your furnace. If it survives annealing, then saw through it if you have a wet saw and that should be a good test.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pringle Teetor View Post
Pete, are you saying 2.0 is compatible with SP? We are in the same boat. Going to batch. We got rid of everything (cane, murrini) made with Spectrum original when we switched to 2.0. and we will be switching to SP batch in the fall.
****
It is essentially the same stuff with a lithium adjustment made up by another alkaline flux, most likely sodium. Spectrum 2.0 is a purloined formula essentially.

My formula is the same expansion as SP87 with better luster and doesn't devitrify. Available at SP on request. It costs .80 lb . It is the formula Littleton asked me to create when the risk of lithium quotas was a real possibility. Nice stuff. Other than that, SP87 is also quite the workable glass and probably preferable if you make sloppy glass stemware.
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:55 PM
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Thanks. Good to know.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:24 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Pete, I'm assuming they'll do your batch in the small bags?

I'm sitting on enough nugget to get me by for a bit, but considering that as an alternative.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:32 PM
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I think that's correct. It raises the price though and that's true with SP87 as well. . While I understand the small bags concept , having introduced Tom to it, I think on a tonnage level it's sort of silly and will put a boatload of carbon in the furnace.

I use a triangular shaped shovel that holds about 25 lbs. It could have been bigger but I don't need bigger any more. I fill the tray and offload it into the pot in one move. My furnace is under the hood. I think if dust is really an issue, I remember Steve Smyers turning his furnace off when he did Cad/Sel charges and that made sense. Then, turn it back on. I recall some people left those charges with the furnace off until it skinned over. That seemed a bit much to me.

As to glass types, they are different. Mine is a high luster, no devit material that grinds well. It is more viscous since the radius on potassium is what it is so if you want a sloppy stem making glass, best to stick to SP87 or consider Gaffer batch which they also mix. If you want slop from mine, it would need to be turned up. You can call Candy for pricing on all of them.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:42 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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My studio is on the small side and I'll have to teach warm classes while I'm charging, so the bags seem the best solution for me. Ideally I'd have enough stock to wait out the Crystallica backlog, but I'm hedging my bets.

What kind of slop are we talking about? Been pretty across the board on what I've used and the solution is always adapt.

Right now I'm running old(2016) System Studio, and while not my fave I can use it. I don't "need" 87 sloppy, but it is the preferred end of the spectrum. Honestly with some of the quick production stuff it was too soft. I really liked the Gaffer for the color, but it was hell on the furnace.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:47 PM
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I tend to be really straight about what I sell. I don't want to exaggerate just to make a sale.

I absolutely love my glass. Tom Littleton asked me to write a new formula for Spruce Pine in anticipation of a lithium quota about three years back. The price did go up on the lithium but the quota never materialized so, I essentially wrote a formula that is virtually the same expansion as SP87 but contains no lithium. So I took the potassium level up and balanced a ratio between barium and zinc. Both Mark Peiser and John Croucher kibbitzed the development over about six weeks. John ultimately said "I can find nothing wrong with this glass". I can't get better from John.

The result was a really high luster clear which polishes incredibly well. It also does not devitrify in casting, a big plus. As to "slop", it isn't sloppy at all but I am cautious around the differing expectations in studios. Lithium does make a glass run longer and it does offer a modicum of protection from thermal shocking a thin piece. It also is corrosive and expensive so there's no free lunch. Currently, I get .06lb royalty for the stuff.

Currently, I've been running the clear for about a year in the same pot and the pot shows no discernible wear. The color pots do show wear and I would expect that.

So, it's an oxidized clear. Best mixed using the new silica supply from Spruce Pine which I believe they call "Q". It seems to me that Brenda was adding on about .13 cents for those small bags a pound. I think that's true for their SP87 as well. To me, that's a lot of money for a bag and I don't find loading the raw snowflake of my formula to be a real problem.

What I have not decided yet is how to handle the non oxidized version which you need if you want to melt your own colors that want O2 reduction. I have requests for it and it has existed for quite some time. I just haven't decided how to, or if I want to market that.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:06 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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While I'm fairly new to posting on here, I've been a casual for a long time, so I have full faith in your honesty.

The polish quality and casting potential are some pretty main driving points for me personally. Realistically anything looser than the old Spectrum flat glass cutoffs should be fine, got to keep it a little loose for the noobs.

I've got some wanna be goblet makers, but a different glass isn't going to solve their problems. That's also not the emphasis of my programming. I've got no room for a color pot, so that's a non issue as well.

I'm a few months from panic, so I'll probably be revisiting this then. Chances are if I'm going back to batch I'll be looking at the bag despite the additional costs. It just looks better logistically for my current space and the charging schedule.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:42 PM
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Beginners do just fine with my glass.
In the long run, batch has simply been the most reliable glass supply out there. In all of the iterations of mismatch, shortage, stoney crap, blah blah blah, the people using batch have been inoculated from it. I sure can't say that about cullet over the last forty to fifty years. Rather, quite the opposite.

As Karl Platt said at one point: "People want their glass to come out of toothpaste tubes." Karl is working down in Brazil at this point as a melt engineer.
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