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Old 02-19-2019, 08:14 PM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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Blow on punty

I see Bill G blow on his punty before attaching. If I do that mine does not stick to the piece very wel if at all Why does he do it.
Franklin
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:30 AM
Rick Kellner Rick Kellner is offline
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It looks to me like he usually keeps an array of pre-made punties in the pipe warmer area at the sill of his furnace/glory combo. When he pulls them out, they look ripping hot with plenty of orange color. I think he just blows on them quickly to achieve an optimal temperature, which attaches securely, yet doesn't completely fuse itself to the bottom of the workpiece.

You might notice that he is literally only one step away from sitting down at the bench, so there's not much time for anything to cool without this little bit of forced chilling.
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:59 AM
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Thanks Rick. Bill is amazing in how he works with thin glass alone.
When gathering, What ratio glass do you have on your blowpipe head to the glass on the end of the pipe? No matter how hot my punty is if I touch the front of the glass on the punty before putying, it donít stick strong. I suspect My bottom is too cold so I have to steal heat from the hot punty to make it stick.
Franklin
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:48 AM
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Gather size limited by small pot. This is first gather. Trying to gather more in one dip.
Bill does a coating gather then another gather to build it up. Why canít it be done in one gather?
Franklin
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Old 02-20-2019, 07:54 AM
Rick Kellner Rick Kellner is offline
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I'll have to be on the lookout, because I thought I usually see Bill using one gather punties. After all, his work tends to be generally thin and gracile.

Your punty looks nice to me, and similar to many I have done. I was helping a much more experienced person with production recently, and he had me try some techniques you might consider. The main goals being to get less glass hanging off the tip of the punty, and ensuring that the punty is plenty hot.

Previously I was taking a small gather, marvering excessively, then re-heating before serving.

His suggestion was to take the gather, then hold the punty straight up in the air (briefly) for the glass to move away from the tip. Next, quickly marver while driving the punty rod forward. (again to minimize excess glass at the tip) If you perform all of the steps with minimal time wasted, you should have a punty immediately ready to use. In fact, you just may find yourself blowing on it a bit before sticking it on. We frequently had to, anyway...

Completely changed my perspective on punties! Give it a try, you, might like it.
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Old 02-20-2019, 09:14 AM
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Scott Novota Scott Novota is offline
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I have to admit the fact that you posted a picture of a digital picture on a phone has made my day.
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:46 AM
Rick Kellner Rick Kellner is offline
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Franklin, I am trying to remember---are you using bottle glass?

If so, that stuff has a wickedly short working time, from my recollection trying it out a couple of times years ago.

It could also be that your glass demands additional heat, and quick tooling to work with, compared to the usual batches and cullets available on the mainland.
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:22 AM
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It strikes me that if the base of the piece is too cold that the punty rarely sticks well, comes off with the slightest shock, or if overheated tends to try to take a divot out of the piece when knocked off.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:07 PM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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Thanks Rick. Sorry I mixed up two separate issues. Trying to get a bigger gather from a small pot and shaping the punty without getting it too cold to stick. I graduated after my visit to Michael . I am using FHC now.
Pete that fine line between too hot and too cold is the key and most difficult to identify or achieve when working alone. Will increasing the temp of the furnace make the glass retain more heat for a longer time. But then loose too much glass in the gathering.
Scott its bridging the digital divide.
Franklin
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Old 02-20-2019, 01:21 PM
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A small punty on a slightly too hot piece is way better than an oversized punty on a cold piece. Consider trying to heat the base a few seconds longer and don't change anything else. How does it knock off? Or... how quick can you get it off the floor?

If you are making stuff with thin stems etc, the punty can't be thicker than the stem. If both parts are too hot, you have a real weld and somewhere the work will separate where you probably did not intend it. . What you want is a poor weld that comes off when pressure is applied. It still has to be hot enough to be poor.

We're talking mediocrity here
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:53 PM
Max Epstein Max Epstein is offline
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I'll try and dig up some videos of my classes with him.

Bill's procedure for making a punty is:

1. Take a small gather
2. Roll on the arm to make it a cylinder
3. Sit on the bench and tweeze (pull) off most of the glass
4. Pull back on thread so it wraps around the hot moile and melts off, leaving 3-5mm of glass off the iron (can look rough)
5. Put on stand (outside furnace)

6. Flash piece
7. Insert punty in furnace on a stand for 30 sec (ripping hot) while moving on
8. Blow on bottom of piece with the sophie right in the center (gentle)
9. Flash piece
10. Blow on bottom of piece 2nd time with sophie
11. Flash piece (leave on bench)
12. Pull ripping iron out
13. Roll on arm with tweezers in front and lift back of iron to create a taper with a flat front
14. Blow on face of punty to give it a slight skin and get closer to the same temp as your piece (otherwise it is too hot for the cooled piece)
15. Attach
16. Put tweezers RIGHT in the jack line and use a little pressure to create 2 points of stress and pick up to bonk


Sounds to me like your suspicion is right and your piece is too cold. Try flashing it before you attach?

His whole style is repeated flashes and short work times to keep as much heat as possible.

Following these steps make it work almost every time, although it isn't great for large or heavy pieces. I have his voice stuck in my head repeating the steps. He really is the nicest drill instructor. I keep hoping Bill will make his class into a DVD so people can learn the basics at home.
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:58 PM
Max Epstein Max Epstein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklin Sankar View Post
Gather size limited by small pot. This is first gather. Trying to gather more in one dip.
Bill does a coating gather then another gather to build it up. Why canít it be done in one gather?
Franklin
It *can* be done in one gather. Bill does it to make his gathers more consistent (if I remember correctly).

I was having a lot of trouble getting a large enough gathers, and doing the coating gather first definitely helped. I still haven't mastered it and often have too small a gather.

Even with a hotter furnace, it will help. Or allow you to run a hotter furnace and more consistent gathers (in my experience).
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Old 02-20-2019, 05:33 PM
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I can recall Billy Morris cutting off punties with a pair of tin snips.

As Dale once said to me: "Big punty, big piece. Little punty, little piece. "
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Old 02-21-2019, 05:23 AM
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Thanks. I was trying to imitate Bill and messed it up. It helps tremendously when you have a helper. I should be back on track now.
Always good to review your practice sometimes.
Franklin
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Old 02-21-2019, 05:38 AM
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Max look at the 2018 YouTube of Bill. He does a progression that looks good for practicing He also does the two part gather.
I was able to gather real good from Micheal Ahlefeldt furnace because he had a wide surface pot. The glass also never got into the hole in the pipe. In my chunkie pot I have to do it multiple times.

Franklin
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:11 AM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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1st. Pic. This is how big I get with two gathers. I tried blowing out some more, let it get real stiff and then gather over the Bubble. That worked if I am careful.

2nd. I know punty won’t stick Strong enough. Can’t wirk faster. Need a punty warmer. Making a punty while hanging out the piece takes too much time.
Franklin
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:26 AM
Monte G Becker Monte G Becker is offline
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Total sum of heat == perfect punty...

Glass, and punty's in particular, are like religion. I say - To each their own so long as it works, and don't tell others how to do it...

I've been struggling with the Gudenrath School of Glass for some years (working small and solo) with some success. This winter, I took a class with Boyd and Lisa. Equally fabulous, but very different. Significant differences in size and punty preparation.

In this I believe:

In large part, it's the amount of combined heat in the bottom and the punty that makes for success. The punty can be cooler if the bottom is hotter - and vice versa.

When working solo, it is easier to control the heat in the punty. Further, the piece needs to be stiff/cool so it doesn't move in the transition. So, Hot Punty's make best sense.

When working with a poorly trained assistant, a gaffer can more easily control the temperature of the piece rather than the punty. So it make sense that the piece should have more heat.


I further believe that most of us use larger punty's then are required - presuming we did them right. Bill G uses the same size punty for everything - from the smallest bowl to his enormous dragon goblets. For sure, your 5 gather piece won't work with a 1/4" punty. There is also the matter that larger diameter metal is easier to turn - important when things get heavy...

Glass and life are full of choices and compromises. All the best!

Monte
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:50 AM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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Do you define the size of your punty by the size of the glass at the tapered end or the size/diameter of the pipe? I can vary the diameter of the end by tapering it.
Franklin
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:58 AM
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Max if you get away with blowing on the bottom of the piece you are a real magician. But I understand what you are trying to do with the heat. My pieces always end up with thinner bottoms that I want. Itís much better now that I am identifying some of the mistakes.
Franklin
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Old 02-21-2019, 12:55 PM
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practicing the correct method helps make better pieces. I discovered that color can hide things.
Franklin
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:54 PM
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One thing that helps me is a pipe/punty rack next to the glory. I use that for preheating pipes and punties. I can also pre make a punty and keep it close to the heat so it doesn't explode then just slide it in the hole to let it get hot before the stick up. I can try and post a picture if you need it but hope you get the idea. My rack holds 4 pipes next to each other but I have seen them made where the pipes are on top of each other instead of next to each other. Either way I couldn't make a lot of things with out it. The other thing I couldn't live with out is my auto turners at the hole. Takes the place of a assistant on so many applications. Nice to see some finished work. Not bad for living on a island void of glassblowing.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:21 PM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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Thanks Sky. Bill work principles helps. But I canít analyze it.
I used two places to try and make a pipe heater. I tried the front first. That was a disaster. Too hot It melted the glass . So I tried the back. That was too cold. So somewhat like Goldilocks I will find the right fit. Your design sounds like the answer. Next time you get a chance can you please shoot a pic for me.
Sorry the pics are rotated by the board software not me.
Franklin
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Last edited by Franklin Sankar; 02-21-2019 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:26 PM
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Pic rotated again. Pipe warmer at back of GH. Since itís not hot enough at back I was thinking about keeping the made up punty in the back then moving it to the front to get hotter. If I can dance fast enough. I made it too big at first hence the bricks stuffed inside.
Franklin

Last edited by Franklin Sankar; 02-21-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:46 PM
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Trying to correct rotation
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:28 PM
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He blows on it because if he didnít it would fuse to the piece and not break off nicely. On the flip side, if he applied it at the tempature that the skin is after blowing on it, the punty would not stick and if it did, it would be hard to straighten it.

He will also marver it on the bench arm against his tweezers before he blows on it.
In other words because he blows solo he had to devise a punty that is failsafe.

Lino says it drives him crazy to watch bill apply punties, but agrees that it works for him so why change it.
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