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Old 03-12-2019, 11:51 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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Lap wheel delam

Hey Guys,
Anybody ever have a problem with the magnetic backing on lap disks delaminating? Just moved to some new digs and had some ridiculous waves on the back. Sent them back to HIS, but they couldn't give me straight answer on what caused it. Nobody at the new place is fessing up to doing anything, so I'm at a loss.
Shawn
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:59 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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That's a product defect. I occasionally have seen de lam just around the center hole but nothing like that.
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:10 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Peel them apart and use 3m adhiesive spray to stick them together
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:37 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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They're sending them back with new pads, wanted way too much and way too long to do it in house. I've seen some stuff around the edges and center like Pete said, but it's kinda bonkers they let it get to this state.
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:04 PM
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I've been mulling over those photos for the last hour or so and the way they delaminated bothers me from the point of view of sudden expansion ( or slower) of two very different materials. What comes into my mind is excessive heat in how those pads were getting stored.

The backing pad from different companies really is significant. I love the pads I get through David Patchen because the backing steel is so rigid and strong. I don't find that in most of the other pad makers and that's true of HIS as well.

While I am a dyed in the wool grit guy, I can see why pads are popular. As is too often in all of the applications, price inevitably and unfortunately is the primary issue. When I use pads, they aren't small. I have 30 inch as a standard and grumble if I have to throw a 24 on a machine and I currently own pads for every grit in multiples from 60- 600. That doesn't mean I want to use them. Mary Beth does , so, I try to accommodate her. Since I no longer make work where the surface really is everything, I'm more flexible now.

But closing, something indeed made those pads delaminate but as I consider it, if Bob had pads delaminating, there would have been a ton and a bunch of them . That's certainly true in our crucible biz and I pay attention to how things fail. I haven't heard that at all and that makes me turn and focus on your shop practices.

If I was going to try to rehab those pads as Eben suggests, don't reuse the damaged ones. Get a totally new backing.
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:49 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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I've never seen anything that bad, even with 20 year old disks with about half the grit missing. I haven't been able to pinpoint any studio practices that irregular that would contribute to it, given I've been here about 4 months.

It can be a fairly hot studio, up to 110 in the summer, but it's not like they're stored above the furnace. The only thing that I've gotten any kind of a lead on from the monitors is that there was a "film" that would show up between the disk and the covington organizer that they were stored. They'd clean the disks with denatured and the organizer with WD; and that would seem to fix the "film" temporarily. Again, new here, so something I probably would have addressed earlier had I been around.

I'm getting new backing from HIS, but I've got to strip it down before applying. The original plater wanted about half the cost of the disk to redo it. His was more generous, but are backlogged so I might not have seen them before the end of the semester if I let them take care of it. I'll update once I do the refurb.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:01 PM
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dry everything with a hair dryer before you do a thing. I do believe the issue is differing expansion rates. If a distributor wants that much to repair such a thing. You need a different distributor. I think Bob is being reasonable.
I don't know what an organizer is. I do know that solvents are to be treated with caution. The solvent would not explain the full delam across the pad in perfect parallels. If it happened to one pad, that's worth noting. When it happens to two? It's different.

Heat destroys everything.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:07 AM
Brian Wong Shui Brian Wong Shui is offline
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WD40 can dissolve/reduce the shear strength of the acrylic in pressure sensitive adhesive laminating tapes. It can also migrate through certain polymers...maybe like the one that makes up the magnetic backing. So you could create a slip region in the lamination where the two layers are moving relative to each other and end up with a wrinkle.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:23 AM
Brian Wong Shui Brian Wong Shui is offline
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I should also mention...the WD40 that migrated into the polymer can make the polymer change in size (usually expands) and change its flexibility (usually brittle).
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:41 AM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
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If you use the kind of masking tape that gets baked on if you leave it in the sun a few days, WD 40 does a marvelous job of removing it- the spray crawls under the adhesive in 20 minutes or so and the tape comes right off leaving only the WD
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:35 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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Since I haven't seen them actually do the cleaning I am relying on second hand anecdotal evidence. These things have been funked long before my arrival, but rest assured the cleaning process will change.

HIS has been pretty good about it, their distributor not as much. I need it back faster than they could fix it, so a bit of DIY is in order.

The organizer is the metal folio you attach on the wall to keep the disks, well, organized. Not much to it but it keeps things from getting banged around. From what I gathered the WD took care of the film when needed, but it should have been wiped clean before the disks when back on. It's not like the disks were left in a pool of it.

As far as the heat goes, maybe I can use that as an excuse to get more studio space .
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:24 PM
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David Patchen handles the best pads out there- period.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:49 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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? I know his work, but not the pads.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:20 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Every few years, David brings the best quality diamond pads I've seen in from China. He needs ten of each type to place the order. The backing is superb thicker metal and the diamond bond is excellent. Further the price is really good. Try using the search function for posts of David's in the last six months and it should pop up. You're a little late for the current order as the shipment is in San Francisco customs now.
I had order two 60 grit 24 inch pads about five years ago and just put the second one in service. I sold the first which still had a lot of life left in it.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:40 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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Got it, I'll keep that in mind next time I need to order. The ones I sent in were only about a year old and the faces had plenty of life in them, so it blew my mind that the backing went to pot so quick.

To think I only thought David pimped fake Dino's on ebay .
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:45 PM
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They are the best genuine fake Dinos out there. You can't get them just anywhere.

When he's ordering pads, I always give him lots of space here to hawk them. The part about they're making childbirth a pleasure is a big selling point.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:50 AM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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I wish he could/would order 18 pads.
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