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Old 12-20-2016, 08:52 PM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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Lists of Color Additives for Cullet

The whole thread is here and it's worth going through to catch the discussion on fine tuning some of the colors via oxygen levels:

http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread.php?t=4382

Most of the coloring chemicals can be had from US pigments:

https://uspigment.com/product-category/chemicals/


Here's the part about Pete's take on how much of what.

Go get the clear furnace nice and hot and ladle a lot of the clear into very cold water allowing the glass to enter the water as a fine stream. If the water warms up, get more cold water. You are going to need a fine frit to do the things I will suggest. Make a bunch of it. Bug lumpy chunks of cullet make for hard coloring.

I am going to think in seven pound quantities heres since most of my old cullet formulas were based on a Tamax crucible that held... 7 lbs.

Most colors do pretty well in the one tenth of one percent amount there certainly are exception If I wanted to make a turquoise blue in cullet I would add about 25 grams of red copper to the frit. I think you could go up to 32 grams with no expansion shift at all. Fire in a neutral atmosphere.

The same would apply to Nickel oxide. It will make a purpley brown glass depending on the alkaline flux. I would bet that the 4c is cheap and the flux is soda so expect the brown tones. Again 32 grams.

Iron glasses. Ick... Some people like them. Add 20 grams red iron to the frit. it's coke bottle green. Try variants with a bit of cobalt or copper or both.

Try one gram cobalt and 30 grams copper. that should yield a periwinkel. You can mess with this combo endlessly.

Three grams cobalt is a dark blue for the absolutely uninitiated. Go to thirty grams and you will have a threading color as well as a trashed pot. Being in the crucible biz, I think that's just great.

Try 4 grams silver nitrate and 20 grams black tin and ten grams red iron. Reduce this stuff heavily. Beautiful opal swirls

try 20 grams copper oxide, 20 grams of black tin and reduce while melting. IF YOU ARE LUCKY this will make a red glass. I don't know enough about c4 to know for sure.

Chrome... it's hard to get potassium dichromate these days. No one wants to ship it. If you can get it, grind it finely and add 30 grams to the 7 lbs of cullet. Think 7 up bottles. Add cobalt or copper to change the blue tones. You can do some very nice and some very ugly things with this stuff. Aviod chrome oxide. It's very hard to melt. It's also carcinogenic. Think rat poison. That's it's claim to fame.

Neodymium oxide. It takes a lot. About 50 grams in seven pounds for a color that is violet in ultra violet light and ice blue in fluorescent light. This is not a casing glass.

Manganese dioxide add about 65 grams of this to the 7 lbs of cullet and see what it does. If it's too light, add more- maybe another 20 grams. It will kick into a strong purple. Tends to be messed up by high sodium base glasses and is gorgeous in potash glasses. You could add silver to this stuff too.

In general, ty to add the colorants to a slightly damp frit and shake it or whatever to get the cullet coated. Try to avoid dumping the chemicals onto the top of the cullet. This tends to sink to the bottom when the melt gets going.


For now, that should do it. You can't make opaque glasses with cullet. Forget cryolite and phosphates. Also don't add selenium to cullet or zinc. They won't work This however should keep you off the streets and amazing your friends for a while.

/////////////////////////////////////

Silver Nitrate at 1/10th of a percent up to one percent in cullet makes some nice stuff. It require less silver if Black tin gets added ( stannous oxide). Hard to find though and it is not to be confused with Stannic oxide, an opacifier. You can add cobalt to the silver for some really beautiful stuff. It does drill pots if the silver is allowed to sink to the bottom. Pete V
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Last edited by Dave Bross; 12-21-2016 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:02 PM
Mitcheal Veenstra Mitcheal Veenstra is offline
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Dave, thanks for condensing this down. I just went through the longer thread as well. I had printed out that longer thread before but lost the notes.

Now I'm about ready to start! I've resurrected my old electric color pot and will start out with the cullet colors to see how things go. I know gas would give me more options, but that'll be another build for another day. This is something I already had, it just needed to be cleaned up and put back in order. Now to find some more small pots to fit it and I guess I need to frit some cullet since starting with spectrum pillows would be bad (from reading Peter's notes)

I applied for the August Chuck Savoie class in Corning. Time to start learning this stuff. My goal is to have tried at least a few pots of cullet color before the class. I hope I get into it.
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:18 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I think that's interesting to me that Chuck is doing the classes at both Penland and Corning. Penland asked me to do it a number of years back and I had to turn them down over the pay. I charged $1500 per student in both of my last classes and they both filled completely at 12 students each so, do the math. Penland was only willing to pay me $500 dollars a week to do the same thing. I don't know what Corning pays.

To do it at $500 a week at Penland would have actually had me losing money. It was a great honor to be asked, but do the math. I find that the number of people actually willing to take that kind of class is limited which is part of why I only taught occasionally. I had to build two furnaces to get to the number of pots I wanted to see. These classes will be interesting to see develop. In my last two, we ran 14 crucibles full time with ever pot getting a new batch at least once a day for five days. That's a lot of color. It certainly tired me out.
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitcheal Veenstra View Post
Now I'm about ready to start! I've resurrected my old electric color pot and will start out with the cullet colors to see how things go. I know gas would give me more options,

I applied for the August Chuck Savoie class in Corning. Time to start learning this stuff. My goal is to have tried at least a few pots of cullet color before the class. I hope I get into it.
*************
Fritting cullet has the advantage of driving off a lot of the oxygen in the glass which is necessary if you want to make reds and ambers of specific types. It can certainly be done in an electric, you just probably have to dose up the reducing agents more which can make things liver up.

As to opaques, John Croucher told me the boro guys were adding zirconium to the boro cullet and getting opaques. I've never tried that but I'll listen to anyone who does. Mark wants me to go all in with Titanium. I believe that but not in a cullet.
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:48 PM
Mitcheal Veenstra Mitcheal Veenstra is offline
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so, putting together a shopping list from us pigments.. I want to understand that what it's called in the recipes is what it's on the website because I was never a potter and this stuff is still new to me... I've read with interest all of this over the years and now am excited to start putting stuff I'm reading into use and truly learning..

Red Copper is also called Cuprous oxide, but on USP it's Copper Oxide Red?
When something calls for Copper Oxide which? (Red, Black, or Carbonate?)
Red iron is maybe Iron Oxide Red (Spanish) on USP? (same as ferrous oxide?)
Cobalt, is Cobalt oxide? (carbonates add o2, not what we want I think)
Nickle oxide, black or green from USP?
Black tin is Tin Oxide Black (Stannous oxide) on USP?

At least I'm not asking about manganese dioxide, that I can figure out, and it's really cheap compared to others.

notebooks will be kept.. it's time to learn!

I know this is all simple stuff compared to actually batching things but I need to start somewhere and I have everything I need save the oxides now to do it. At least I'll start somewhere.
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:51 PM
Mitcheal Veenstra Mitcheal Veenstra is offline
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Well, me and my studio partner have applied for the class, hopefully we'll get in. I have kicked myself for years on missing your last color class Peter. At the time I wasn't really in the position to be able to use the knowledge and life got in the way and kept me from taking your class. Now I have the space and most of/getting most of the equipment to start to learn and apply what I will get in the class.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitcheal Veenstra View Post
so, putting together a shopping list from us pigments.. I want to understand that what it's called in the recipes is what it's on the website because I was never a potter and this stuff is still new to me... I've read with interest all of this over the years and now am excited to start putting stuff I'm reading into use and truly learning..

Red Copper is also called Cuprous oxide, but on USP it's Copper Oxide Red?
When something calls for Copper Oxide which? (Red, Black, or Carbonate?)
Red iron is maybe Iron Oxide Red (Spanish) on USP? (same as ferrous oxide?)
Cobalt, is Cobalt oxide? (carbonates add o2, not what we want I think)
Nickle oxide, black or green from USP?
Black tin is Tin Oxide Black (Stannous oxide) on USP?

At least I'm not asking about manganese dioxide, that I can figure out, and it's really cheap compared to others.

notebooks will be kept.. it's time to learn!

I know this is all simple stuff compared to actually batching things but I need to start somewhere and I have everything I need save the oxides now to do it. At least I'll start somewhere.
*******
Red copper is also Cuprous oxide ( Cu2O). Black Copper is (CuO).

Spanish Iron is something Paul Soldner started up about forty years ago and drove people nuts. Fe2O is a +2 ion Fe2O3 is a +3 ion. Read about that here
(The difference between ferric and ferrous iron is that ferric iron is in a plus-3 oxidation state, while ferrous iron is in a plus-2 oxidation state. This means that ferric iron needs to share three electrons with an oxygen molecule to make the ion neutral, while ferrous iron only needs two more electrons.)

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...errous%20oxide

Hint: I almost never use either black copper or iron.

If you buy carbonates, you're paying a lot for oxygen. I view Cobalt carbonate as a softer way to introduce cobalt as opposed to the oxide. I think making powder blue is the only sane way to introduce cobalt if you want consistency. Take 10 grams of cobalt oxide and add 90 grams of either batch or silica to it. Then mix. Take ten grams of that and add it to yet another 90 grams of frit or batch or whatever. I think you get the dilution point.

Nickle: Use black. Many people are allergic to nickle. It causes a rash. It's not lethal. I do not care for the color nickle makes in a soda glass. It does improve in a potash glass.

Potassium Dichromate: Makes a piss green. It's the stuff that got Bullseye in so much trouble in Portland. Think Erin Brokovitch, think Hexavalent chromium, think rat poison.

Put the manganese through a fine screen or you'll get little tiny lumps.
Actually screen everything. I do.

Black tin can be had from the Mason Corporation. It's no longer cheap.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:28 PM
Mitcheal Veenstra Mitcheal Veenstra is offline
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thanks Pete

I appreciate what you've shared with us over the years and it's time to do my homework and due diligence. I'll report back our successes and failures as we learn.
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