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  #26  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:38 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
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Seriously though, the door system is going to lift and pivot. Think about the mechanism on a hand crank juicer with a pivot built into the neck. You lift up the handle and move the door to the side. The door itself will be 2" hard castable backed with frax just like the walls.
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  #27  
Old 08-11-2017, 03:08 PM
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At one point My friend Henry Summa had a track machined which was not straight. At the end it took a very orderly dive to make a door seal, so when you began to open the door, it simply began to lift away following that track. Really elegant.
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  #28  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:09 PM
Bill Worcester Bill Worcester is offline
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Unhappy Henry

I miss Henry
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  #29  
Old 08-11-2017, 07:53 PM
Cecil McKenzie Cecil McKenzie is offline
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Jordan .. i hope your furnace works well. i will be interested if you post your experience with it.

I have a small Denver furnace that I use sometimes in the winter so I am familiar with those elements. My furnace uses MDRs so elements may be more abused than the yours will be if you use a more advanced system of powering up your elements. i have not had much longevity with those elements and when they fail they melt severely and migrate into the refractory.

Will you use the element putty to hold the elements in place?
Some kind of mechanical method might be better.

One thing that Dennis talked about on his furnace was being able to change elements on the fly. That would be a plus because you don't have to let it cool all the way down to change elements.
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  #30  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:22 AM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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Patent application pending for Wood door on the outside as a protective device like a fuse. Over temperature can cause it to burn up like a fuse. Thanks George.

Jordan how did you clean the elements if you got any cement on them.
Franklin
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  #31  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:27 AM
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Anybody remember those videos of the ITC coating back about fifteen years ago. They coated pieces of plywood and stuffed them up again hot furnaces? I always thought that stuff was insulating snake oil.
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  #32  
Old 08-12-2017, 01:45 PM
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ITC coatings are alive and well. Basically an advanced colloidal silica or alumina. Many people swear by it and I have seen it work on fiber pretty good. It is a bit over priced for me to buy in but it does seem to work.


Franklin a bit of brown paper to cover the element where the mortar goes. A dap of mortar then fold the paper away from element over the mortar to squish in place. When you start to heat it up you can either let the paper burn away or remove it once the water is driven from the mortar.. I used a ramable plastic for this application and recomend it over mortar. Easier to handle and will pop off clean when it's time to remove.


Jordan I like the idea and have had the same thoughts. Unfortunately I just can't justify not having a crown. The top gathering style furnace just doesn't cut it for what I want to do. I have given thoughts to the same set up with a gas fired crown on top that can be turned off at the end of the day. Not to mention could be used for reheating. I do like the idea but how are you addressing a broken pot? Where will the glass drain to? More pictures please.

I have an annealer with a lid that lifts as it turns. It is a vertical pipe with a v cut out. The door is on a smaller vertical pipe sleeved inside with a pin that sticks out. When you rotate the door the pin rides on the v cutout lifting the door as it rotates. Clear as mud? I can try and post pics of you like. It's a pretty nice trick that allows the door to sit tight on the seal until rotated.

Last edited by Sky Campbell; 08-12-2017 at 01:50 PM. Reason: It's a spelling nightmare. Where's my glasses? Why doesn't this board have a built in spell check?
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2017, 02:23 AM
Steve Stadelman Steve Stadelman is offline
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Sky, the problem with a gas/wire hybrid is that A1 and APM elements don't do well in reduction. You need Nichrome and it fails at several hundred degrees too low.
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  #34  
Old 08-13-2017, 06:14 AM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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Sky thank you for the hint about the fold over of the brown paper The fold over trick will gEt the cement to stick better with no mess. Good one.
After working out of Michael electric furnace I could not believe how many gathering problems the crown arrangement solved.
Anyone made a crown furnace for a wire furnace? not good news about the gas wire reaction.
Franklin
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  #35  
Old 08-13-2017, 03:09 PM
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I was thinking the elements would be isolated under a baffle. The gas fire would never see the elements. I also thought apm was proven to be not worth the money. Little gain for the money.

Yes Franklin it is commonly done. Look at a Denver furnace for reference.
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  #36  
Old 08-13-2017, 03:53 PM
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I think APM is a genuine waste of money. I do think the French alloy would be really interesting to pursue and I don't know anyone who has done it. Street word was it was far better stuff.
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  #37  
Old 08-13-2017, 09:51 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
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I like that idea for the door as well Sky.
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  #38  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:16 AM
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Thanks Sky. I guess I will have to add the. Surface area of the crown now. More power required. It is going to be a fight.
Franklin
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  #39  
Old 08-16-2017, 05:53 AM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
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John those elements are basically the same as the grill in a kitchen oven or a charcoal starter- they are just good for annealing temps- I think there are special elements rated for 1650F but I haven't used those
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  #40  
Old 08-16-2017, 03:36 PM
Steve Stadelman Steve Stadelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig View Post
John those elements are basically the same as the grill in a kitchen oven or a charcoal starter- they are just good for annealing temps- I think there are special elements rated for 1650F but I haven't used those
Trust me, Jordan knows what's up.
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  #41  
Old 08-17-2017, 06:06 AM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
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I was answering Johns question about my annealer elements
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  #42  
Old 08-17-2017, 01:54 PM
Steve Stadelman Steve Stadelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig View Post
I was answering Johns question about my annealer elements
My mistake.
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  #43  
Old 08-17-2017, 03:39 PM
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This becoming a touch esoteric. One bunch is talking about a wire melter and another is talking about annealer elements. Both are good for what they do but they're not interchangeable. Don't use stove elements in a melter unless you like strange dust. .

Ick.
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  #44  
Old 08-18-2017, 06:50 AM
John Riepma John Riepma is offline
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Yes, the conversation was about element coils touching and overheating and I was curious as to whether the elements that Michael had mentioned in another thread would alleviate the problem. Without knowing exactly what they were and being able to find the temp rating I thought that Micheal would be able to answer my question. I didn't mean to hijack the thread to annealers, my apologies.
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  #45  
Old 08-18-2017, 08:50 AM
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It strikes me that one of the issues of putting elements in a moving component is how to keep the elements totally stationary as the lid moves. I did find on Amazon 10 gauge fiberglass wrapped hookup wire as well as actual 10 gauge female clips for the wire and I'm using that stuff on Mary Beth's fusing kiln which has elements in the door and the door is opened with a winch. It's working rather nicely but sourcing the heavy gauge wire had been an issue. I put it in individual sections of armored cable which makes for looking a lot like those bots in the matrix. It does keep things well isolated.
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  #46  
Old 09-01-2017, 01:33 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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Anyone know what the Denver casting mold would look like? The element groove looks like an undercut nightmare.

Some kind of a 2-part, breaks down in the middle design?
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  #47  
Old 09-01-2017, 02:26 PM
Rick Kellner Rick Kellner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor Chiarizia View Post
does anyone make a circular silicon carbide element that could be used instead of wire elements? vic

It's moly, but circular, anyway. How'd you like to ship that thing???
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  #48  
Old 09-01-2017, 02:46 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Vanantwerp View Post
Anyone know what the Denver casting mold would look like? The element groove looks like an undercut nightmare.

Some kind of a 2-part, breaks down in the middle design?
Screw a bunch of 2" backer rod to a sonotube. Pour it upside down so any air voids are at the top of the element grove not the bottom. That's how I did it anyway.
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  #49  
Old 09-01-2017, 03:06 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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Damn...that's simple! Why do I always have to complicate things?

When my kiln/furnace dies I'm thinking ahead to a larger version of what you have done here. Thanks!
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  #50  
Old 09-01-2017, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Kube View Post
Screw a bunch of 2" backer rod to a sonotube. Pour it upside down so any air voids are at the top of the element grove not the bottom. That's how I did it anyway.
Backer rod is a brilliant idea. I used rubber hose screwed to sono tube. Undid the screws removed the sono tube and then spent the day cursing and cutting tubing into little pieces till I got it out. I remember last time looking at pipe insulation but it deformed to easy. If I ever cast another that little tid bit will be a great time saver. I imagine it would be easy enough to just burn out.
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