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  #51  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:28 PM
Bob Meyer Bob Meyer is offline
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A torchworker in this area has gotten 10's of thousands of dollars for bongs that he's made. Another torch guy sold an entire trailer of bongs to one guy when he went to the Las Vegas show a couple years ago. I'm not sure how many people would pass up that kind of money to make sure their work passes someone's standards of "art".
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  #52  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:29 PM
Bob Meyer Bob Meyer is offline
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With May almost gone, what is it we should be looking for?


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well, this is like Henry Ford's car color choice. "Any color you like as long as it's black"

There is one Cristalica. It does not do well being put in a crucible that has contained anything else. SP 87 is the batch of choice. Suck it up. About every ten years, I'm reminded of why I make my own glass. As I said, I continue to think the crisis will really begin in May... Oh look a squirrel!

I'm sort of out there in no patience land. No one makes their clear, no one makes their color. The furnace is just bought at incredible prices. Karl Platt used to say that they want their glass to come out of a toothpaste tube.

In 1968 we fought every day to be allowed to just do this. Go look at Henry's video and look at the fire in those Penland guys. It was a great time to be in the arts. Every day you learned something new and could not wait to tell your friends- (a serious mistake I might add.)

My Nick Labino book arrived today. Not very good at all but it gave some great overviews of the history of Glass which I genuinely believe people should know. It has an innocence to it that I love and I'm very glad to have it in the library.I'm actually really sad that Tom is selling his books. It's depressing. Here? we're starting to raise Bees. There will be fish in the pond soon and MB is ordering chickens! Eric is building tools in the studio and learning like a Hoover Vacuum. We have zero pumpkins on the racks.
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  #53  
Old 05-24-2018, 05:33 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Limits on supply always a cause a supply and demand issue. I'm a patient man and my supply is assured.
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  #54  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:27 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Meyer View Post
A torchworker in this area has gotten 10's of thousands of dollars for bongs that he's made. Another torch guy sold an entire trailer of bongs to one guy when he went to the Las Vegas show a couple years ago. I'm not sure how many people would pass up that kind of money to make sure their work passes someone's standards of "art".
And if your keyed into that industry you would know that many many more have left it in the last few years due to mostly offshore competition. There will always be the few that can set their own prices at the top end of every market but that doesn't mean very much. The wholesale shows are very difficult for all but that top tier few again. Very high table fees and massive competition have made it hard to break even for most who make functional glass.
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  #55  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:33 PM
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Art , it ain't
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  #56  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:39 PM
Bob Meyer Bob Meyer is offline
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I wonder if the environment is different here - I just run into more torch guys all the time, and only 1 that I can think of that's not in it anymore. Overall, I'm sure many have left - there's an awful lot of those guys, since it has a somewhat low barrier to entry, and being able to do it right in your house if you're so inclined. There's plenty of competition right in the US.

I'm not sure the guys I mention are even top-tier guys. Listening to the boro guys around here, there are bigger names elsewhere. The guys I mention are just local guys that have been able to do well through a lot of hard work.

But there seems to be a lot going on in boro - with furnaces and glory holes, as has been mentioned, continual advancements in colors, new torch styles, etc. A kiln-maker in the area has seen a sharp increase in orders the last couple years - almost all for boro. It's not just that there are top-tier guys making big bucks, but that there's a lot of innovation going on. Along with that, the legalization of marijuana has increased demand of paraphernalia exponentially.

I'm not sure that whether it's art or not is really answerable, though of course that won't keep most people from having an opinion. I don't think it can be argued, though, that it can be viewed as significant.



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And if your keyed into that industry you would know that many many more have left it in the last few years due to mostly offshore competition. There will always be the few that can set their own prices at the top end of every market but that doesn't mean very much. The wholesale shows are very difficult for all but that top tier few again. Very high table fees and massive competition have made it hard to break even for most who make functional glass.
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  #57  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:53 PM
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It's certainly clear that there is a lot of action in the boro world with just a tiny number of them interested in the physics of it. We sell a lot of pots to boro makers now which always surprises me since we don't really make pots for those temperature ranges. As to Art, there's some nice stuff and there's a lot of junk as is the case with the soft stuff.
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  #58  
Old 05-26-2018, 11:04 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
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I don’t quite understand, the CE pots I bought from Pete, would just barely hold up to the temperatures to fine out glasma batch, get just a little bit too hot and you’d have a snowstorm flurry of stones in the melt. Id push it to within 10 C of that happening. How can you melt boro? What temperature do the pots take now days? At what temperature do you melt boro? i should say soften bora right? There is no boro batch? Or is there?
Those pots did have some other advantages though
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  #59  
Old 05-27-2018, 06:08 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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GLASMA higher barium glasses will indeed throw stones in an alumina pot if you get too hot, little tiny round ones which I suspect were fine tabular alumina. You were running a big pot as I recall. What I think occurred there wa the china clay binder dissolved and let the alumina around it loose.

We don't recommend using our pots for pyrex at all but people still buy them. I've kind of given up on saying they won't work well, but they don't. Northstar uses a 40lb pot from EC for their boro melts and they go through tons of pots. The hard part about the boro melting guys is they say they're melting batch and they aren't. They melt cullet and it's really seedy. They just crush the snot out of it. They have done some remarkable stuff with coloring it and I would not have thought it to have gone so well, but, there you are.

The only pots I can see for boro would be AZS and that comes with major thermal shock issues. The only group I know of doing AZS is Minteq and they don't really make pots. Most of the people who melt boro are happy with 12 melts.
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  #60  
Old 05-27-2018, 12:20 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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do the math, they melt 20lb. and sell it for $40/lb. + $800/melt x 12 =$9600 and the pot costs $300 or less and they have little labor in the finished product. That is a cost of only 3% in consumables for what you are producing. Even if it double or triple this, it can still be profitable.
It may not be great glass but the $ are there and that's all that matters to most of the world anymore.
Mark used to only do 10 melts in his pots and then he retired them. I still remember the stack he had of them in his front yard. Are they still there?
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  #61  
Old 05-27-2018, 02:04 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Meyer View Post
I wonder if the environment is different here - I just run into more torch guys all the time, and only 1 that I can think of that's not in it anymore. Overall, I'm sure many have left - there's an awful lot of those guys, since it has a somewhat low barrier to entry, and being able to do it right in your house if you're so inclined. There's plenty of competition right in the US.

I'm not sure the guys I mention are even top-tier guys. Listening to the boro guys around here, there are bigger names elsewhere. The guys I mention are just local guys that have been able to do well through a lot of hard work.

But there seems to be a lot going on in boro - with furnaces and glory holes, as has been mentioned, continual advancements in colors, new torch styles, etc. A kiln-maker in the area has seen a sharp increase in orders the last couple years - almost all for boro. It's not just that there are top-tier guys making big bucks, but that there's a lot of innovation going on. Along with that, the legalization of marijuana has increased demand of paraphernalia exponentially.

I'm not sure that whether it's art or not is really answerable, though of course that won't keep most people from having an opinion. I don't think it can be argued, though, that it can be viewed as significant.
Many more have left in the last few years then have survived chinese production. All you have to do is look in the right places and you will see huge numbers of Lathes, torches, etc. for sale. Most functional glass folks operate completely under the radar.
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  #62  
Old 05-27-2018, 02:06 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fuhrman View Post
do the math, they melt 20lb. and sell it for $40/lb. + $800/melt x 12 =$9600 and the pot costs $300 or less and they have little labor in the finished product. That is a cost of only 3% in consumables for what you are producing. Even if it double or triple this, it can still be profitable.
It may not be great glass but the $ are there and that's all that matters to most of the world anymore.
Mark used to only do 10 melts in his pots and then he retired them. I still remember the stack he had of them in his front yard. Are they still there?
Like anything else you make use of whats available. These pots might not be ideal but they obviously can be made to work.
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  #63  
Old 05-27-2018, 03:02 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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try upwards of $100 lb . At this point QC is not good but the demand for the colors supersedes the quality issues. If this was soft glass people would be howling/ That 40lb pot costs 165 dollars. The pyrex cullet is expensive.

And Yes Mark doesn't get rid of anything. He used the corhart pots for all the recent experiments for the titanium Phosphate. Scott told me when he was in Murano, he was on melt 161.
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  #64  
Old 05-27-2018, 05:16 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Pete, I was trying to be conservative in my figures. I think boro cullet can be gotten pretty reasonable as castoffs from production lab factories. There was a time almost 25 years ago that I had access to castoffs from a light bulb factory and all the internal rod castoffs. You can find some interesting stuff if you are willing to compromise and be creative.
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  #65  
Old 05-27-2018, 05:27 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I get that Tom. No offense taken here. I just watch what that market is doing and it floors me. Boro Cullet is really incredibly pricey for what it is and the tech work behind it which is seriously marginal. Those guys are far more in the "Wild West" we saw 30 years back. There's a fraud at every street corner.

My biggest problem last year ( it has improved) is trying to get boro color maker to stop lying to me while I try to help them. The new ones have discovered cobalt.
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