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  #26  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rosenbaum View Post
Wow, 6 posts and you are slamming the moderator!
You need to start to understand Pete's responses. 23 responses and the topic hasn't completely gone off the rails, that is unusual. Tangents and rabbit holes are very common here.
Yes, I guess so. My secret decoder ring hasn't showed up yet.

It's funny, I was sitting around talking to a host of people at the LaGare during GAS and everyone said I should join CraftWEB, but they all said the same thing - Be careful they're are all pretty brutal on that site.

Consider this a noob's perspective to the - site, and I really don't want to stir up $&|+. I'm not a noob to glass though, I started in the 70's so I've been around and seen it all.

Pete and Mark, Sorry we got off on the wrong foot.
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  #27  
Old 08-15-2018, 02:04 PM
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Stick around, share and enjoy, there is a ton of info here. You will find that there are MANY personalities here, some of us have been working with the goo a long time. You'll get used to us (well, maybe not all of us )
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  #28  
Old 08-15-2018, 02:10 PM
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I don't think craftweb is brutal at all and I would wonder what examples you were given. The only thing I really tend to get my hackles up over is fraudulent information, particularly the promises of groundbreaking equipment for sale. That stuff I indeed can be hard on since there are people here with a wide range of experience who may fall for a con job and there are more than a few.

Craftweb has helped sell equipment for a lot of people, no charge.

I do think Craftweb is really honest and its members consistently call a spade a spade. The current crisis over cullet is , I think an excellent example of that and as to shortage, I suggested it was coming over six months ago despite the manufacturers assurances. Got cullet?

Craftweb has also been honest in documented the effects of Boron on fireclays and silicates despite manufacturers insistence that the dissolution problems came from other materials.

Craftweb has been brutally honest in its assessments of national shows.

Craftweb even assaulted "Sacred Geometry" , taking on the church.

It's a tough crowd sometimes, almost always a supportive one. I've been running it for about 17 years now.
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  #29  
Old 08-15-2018, 02:29 PM
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I go back to google and under the goldstone bit it says "
:Goldstone is a type of glittering glass made in a low-oxygen reducing atmosphere. The finished ... Another common name for the material is aventurine glass, based on the original Italian name avventurina ... "
****
It's more than a common name, it's the real name. Up until quite recently, goldstone was not a term I had ever heard. I do take note that most of the samples of blown or formed glass using the name "Aventurine" are Murano vases in either the copper or gold forms. Under the goldstone listing for the wikipedia stuff are entirely photos of ground and polished chunks of the stuff.

So, I'm far from convinced. The chemist in me tells me that copper aventurine could have just the right amount of cobalt added to make it look sort of purple but that would be where I'd be inclined to stop. You can't add copper since it's already making the gold tone. Again, it might be feasible to make both a gold or a silver aventurine but would really be cost prohibitive.

This goldstone search never used to come up and I am suspicious that sufficient google hits based on a branded marketed item have pushed it to the top of the pile. That does not mean much.
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  #30  
Old 08-15-2018, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Trulson View Post
...two somewhat confusingly titled wiki articles:

Wikipedia article on aventurine glass (this is the one we care about):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldstone_(glass)

Wikipedia article on the quartz mineral aventurine (shiny, but not relevant to the discussion here):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aventurine
It is my somewhat informed opinion that much of the confusion/disagreement can be attributed to semantics. I find this statement to be noteworthy:

"Curiously, "aventurine" glass is one of the few synthetic simulants to provide the eponym for the similar natural stones. The mineral name "aventurine" is used for forms of feldspar or quartz with mica inclusions that give a similar glittering appearance; the technical term for this optical phenomenon, "aventurescence", is also derived from the same source."

If you take some time to ponder how often we use mineral and precious stone terminology to describe the characteristics of glass you may see how this is significant.

How did we get the word "crystal"?

I'm no expert, but I have spent some time studying how glass has been used in the past to mimic other materials. "Goldstone" or "Aventurine" flips that on its head.
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  #31  
Old 08-15-2018, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Vriethoff View Post

How did we get the word "crystal"?
.
*********
That was Johnny Storm's girlfriend's name in the Fantastic Four comic books circa 1969. Everyone knows that. Recall, The Creature from the Black Lagoon issue. Tragic.


(Thank you Greg, What you wrote holds pearls of wisdom.)... wait! Pearls?
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  #32  
Old 08-15-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Rosenbaum View Post
, some of us have been working with the goo a long time. You'll get used to us (well, maybe not all of us )
********
You may use "goo" but those of us who are refined and sophisticated work with "Goop"
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  #33  
Old 08-15-2018, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
********
You may use "goo" but those of us who are refined and sophisticated work with "Goop"
Vase/vase, Goo/Goop, it's just someone's interpretation
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  #34  
Old 08-15-2018, 08:19 PM
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Damn, I was just curious. Had never heard of purple, wondered if it was one of those unicorns lurking in the periodic zoo.
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  #35  
Old 08-16-2018, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Freas View Post
Damn, I was just curious. Had never heard of purple, wondered if it was one of those unicorns lurking in the periodic zoo.
Art and Eben - If you want a chunk of what I have, send me a private message and I'll send you a piece to play with. As I said though, not much bling.
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  #36  
Old 08-16-2018, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Simmons View Post
Art and Eben - If you want a chunk of what I have, send me a private message and I'll send you a piece to play with. As I said though, not much bling.
Cool! Thanks! I will send you a pm now...
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Old 08-11-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
given their positions on the atomic table, I have to wonder aloud if an aventurine could theoretically be made with either silver or gold. Either would really be pretty expensive if it could work at all.
I'm not sure about silver but it'd be tricky because its melting point is so low compared to gold and copper. Gold can't be made into ruby because its solubility is so low. The closest I've seen to gold aventurine is a gold ruby that I kilned at 700C overnight. It ended up livering out and was quite beautiful. I do want to try it now though...
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  #38  
Old 08-11-2019, 06:51 PM
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there are three threads running concurrently on exotic coloring. I think that's very cool and it's always encouraging to see a new generation picking up the mantle.

With any of these glasses it's worth remembering that the studied group will still have to match both viscosity and expansion conditions to be remotely useful in studio glass, eith BK or Soda based.

It is beyond my willingness to melt boric acid and add sulfur to it. I've dodged enough toxins in these 70 years to fool with what gets in the air anymore. It's hard enough to make soda limes and leads.

You can have way more than silica glasses. Boron is glassy, so is Arsenic, antimony. As the BK people are amply demonstrating, color changes radically with the changes in fluxes as well as stabilizers. It certainly is in contrast to people who can't find the enthusiasm to make their own clear.
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  #39  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:26 PM
Bradley Howes Bradley Howes is offline
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In oversaturated melts, silver behaves similarly to copper: with Cu glasses there is haematinon, which is brick red and Ag glasses are colored grey by the particles of metallic silver. However, further oversaturation does not produce aventurine glass. pg. 485 Volf Chemical Approach to Glass.

Yall can find me sobbing in the corner, bye.

Still though, Ill try it and see what happens and, of course, results will be posted.
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  #40  
Old 08-15-2019, 08:23 AM
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I've spent most of my time this last ten months using colloidal silver glasses exclusively but there is no clear casing, just the silvers. I do add various things to to other silver pots and overlay that on the base glass. These are quite large pots I'm referring to. Then I sandblast that work and treat the surface. The dispersion of light and the resultant color is really remarkable but what is really quite interesting is how little silver it takes. The key is in in the stabilizers and fluxes. I doubt it would work in cullets at all.

The trouble with aventurines in general is how brittle they normally are. Invariably tight expansion and viscosity ranges.
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  #41  
Old 08-16-2019, 07:38 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
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Pete, can you show what youve been doing or what collodial silver will do?
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  #42  
Old 08-17-2019, 08:29 AM
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Amazingly enough, after all these years, I still have never posted a photo on craftweb and don't know how to do it. I don't carry a cell phone at all and find it to be totally anti intuitive when forced to deal with it. I did like the flip phone. It rang and I answered. Now, I'm pretty close to totally deaf so email is really my main method of communication. While I can take pictures with the phone, I don't like to and then have an irritating time doing anything with the pictures. At least with the chemistry, I need none of those things. Just an old cretin tinkering in the shop. Keep the kids off the lawn.
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  #43  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:44 AM
Bradley Howes Bradley Howes is offline
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What is this colloidal silver melt youre talking about? Is it like a haematione but made with silver?
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  #44  
Old 08-17-2019, 12:20 PM
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both copper and silver melts are colloidal. For that matter so are the gold ones. The issue begins to express itself when the long molecules ( colloidal strands) grow to a stage where they begin to reflect light rather than to allow it to be transmitted through them. That can be attractive or really ugly depending on what you do with it.

The work I'm pursuing is the remarkable array of colors exposed when one doesn't case these glasses. It's really tied entirely to their thermal histories. Work them one way, you get one color group, work them another, you get other colors. The silver is simply the most interesting to me.
Those glasses also show themselves if you have large blocks of them and then begin to grind into the layers. Sometimes I make 15 lb blocks of a silver glass and mix it with something else, often a cad sel red opal. The grinding brings out remarkable stuff. It does require one to expend cash on large pots of color using non commercial batch glasses suited to bringing out those effects plus a very good rendering facility for grinding and polishing them. If the only tooling the studio has is a 104 belt sander, it ain't gonna work. Cullet won't do well either. I do keep stressing getting soda and calcium out of your glass if you want better color.
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  #45  
Old 08-17-2019, 07:40 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
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Well it would have been nice to see
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  #46  
Old 08-18-2019, 07:40 AM
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send me your email and I'll find a picture of one. I can email from the phone, a major breakthrough requiring all family hands on deck.
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  #47  
Old 08-18-2019, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rosenbaum View Post
Wow, 6 posts and you are slamming the moderator!
You need to start to understand Pete's responses. 23 responses and the topic hasn't completely gone off the rails, that is unusual. Tangents and rabbit holes are very common here.
Mark, You were definitely right. I'm not sure why this part of that old thread got dredged up, but I think I do understand Pete better now. I read posts here almost every day, and usually, learn something. For what it's worth Pete, I love Craftweb, even though I don't always understand your references.

Last edited by Rich Simmons; 08-18-2019 at 10:08 AM.
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