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  #26  
Old 07-26-2019, 10:38 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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It was indeed a gather of System 96(coe94) Studio nuggets over a boxed pickup of bomma; and then 96(coe94) clear plate with a chunk of bomma on top taken to 1450. I can't remember if the plate was from Spectrum or Oceanside, but that really isn't going to matter in the long run. Considering there is no actual 96 coe nugget or sheet that I am aware of, I used the colloquialisms of our time; Spectrum=System=Studio=Oceanside plate="96"(94coe), but not Oceanside or Permium nugget.

Nothing changed from my usual paperweight methods, and it ran through my standard 12 hour cycle. I've boxed much larger and over worked things, and they've never had that amount of stress. There may be some change in bomma being run through a furnace, but since that is not an option at the time, I made sure to get it nice and juicy before gathering over.

Last edited by Shawn Everette; 07-26-2019 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 07-26-2019, 10:40 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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"New Formula". I'd be surprised if anyone was melting any of the original anymore.
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  #28  
Old 07-26-2019, 10:45 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Little skin off my back, don't regularly use plate other than the occasional dichro. I've probably got 4 months of the system if I feel the urge. The bomma never said it'd be compatible, just curious really.
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  #29  
Old 07-26-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Everette View Post
"New Formula". I'd be surprised if anyone was melting any of the original anymore.
Waving hand in the air over here. That’s the first I’ve seen the “new formula”. I still have a good stash of the original and only use it with dicro coated on system 96 and system 96 color pots. I broke a lot of work encasing dicro coated on system 96 with Other glasses. The original nuggets became critical to continue that line.

Thanks for clearing everything up I was afraid you found that bomma to not be compatible with spectrum 2.0 sp clone. That would have indicated a big problem with the new bomma and sure set of the alarms in my head.
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:44 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Wow, how old is that stuff? I thought they stopped making that around '13. The "new formula" is fine for system sheet pick ups, plan on hoarding a bag or two in case it's valuable someday. Supposed to be easier on your furnace, but I found premium 2.0 to be best contender for pot life. Hoping the same can be said for the bomma.
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  #31  
Old 07-26-2019, 12:17 PM
Rosanna Gusler Rosanna Gusler is offline
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Spectrum never made "plate" nor "float" glasses.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:26 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Edited float, plate vs sheet I'm not going to get hung up over describing a flat piece of glass. If you're this deep into the thread, you know we're talking about fusible.
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  #33  
Old 07-26-2019, 03:46 PM
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Roseanna has a point. the totally flat tortilla chip shaped stuff is not processed the same way as the cullets.
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  #34  
Old 07-26-2019, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosanna Gusler View Post
Spectrum never made "plate" nor "float" glasses.
Are you trying to say that because some of it was melted at uroboros glass? Spectrum did make the system 96 line and some of it was float made.

Last edited by Sky Campbell; 07-26-2019 at 05:13 PM.
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  #35  
Old 07-26-2019, 05:20 PM
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surface area exposed as well as time in the melt indeed affects the expansion and viscosity of a glass.
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  #36  
Old 07-26-2019, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosanna Gusler View Post
Spectrum never made "plate" nor "float" glasses.
This is incorrect.
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  #37  
Old 07-26-2019, 07:24 PM
Rick Wilton Rick Wilton is offline
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"plate glass" was the way window glass was made before float glass was invented. It was called plate glass because the glass was ground and polished on a large plate.

Float glass is window glass that is floated on a bed of tin.

So no spectrum has not made either type glass in a literal sense.

Now some people still refer to a piece of glass as plate glass, but that is not correct in a technical way.
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  #38  
Old 07-26-2019, 07:38 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
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I happen to live 50 km from a Pilkington ( that invented float) float glass factory, they made 18 ft wide sheet of float glass at 6 km an hour for 40 years, that took a ship about every other day and 200 trucks delivering sand every day, to the factory
I doubt float glass can be made on a small scale.
I looked in the furnace- it was like a scene from hades 1500 C, sort of plasma like spirals rolling around in it
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  #39  
Old 07-26-2019, 07:52 PM
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5. if you include the system 96 cullet. This was the cut offs from the clear float they produced.
Was this before the System 96 Nuggets? I never saw that cullet, before I started blowing glass.
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Old 07-26-2019, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Everette View Post
"New Formula". I'd be surprised if anyone was melting any of the original anymore.
This was the last gasp formula of System 96 Studio Nuggets. This was the little/no borax formula. I did not leave the yellow crap on the furnace that the previous System 96 Studio Nuggets left. I had a nice working time for us as it was not too long for production and not too short for the more sculptural work. Wasn't perfect for either but a nice in between.
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  #41  
Old 07-26-2019, 08:23 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Honestly I thought they made the switch about the time 2.0 came around. I'm melting from one of the last runs in '17, think we bought about 10k lbs of the stuff.

Last edited by Shawn Everette; 07-26-2019 at 09:24 PM. Reason: we
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  #42  
Old 07-26-2019, 08:28 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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I was burning it in '10, think they had it more available before the nuggets got big. Cullet was a generous term as it was real dirty, and not particularly pleasant to work with as a blowing glass. Yellow, short, questionable compatibility with the blowing colors, and ate the ever living **** out of your furnace. It was basically a giant bag of clear dumps off the factory floor.
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  #43  
Old 07-26-2019, 09:01 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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I understand that, but guys, I'm not trying to redefine the glass industry. Just referring to a flat piece of 96(94) glass that I melted in a kiln. It came from System or Oceanside's fusible line, and at this point I don't care which. I didn't ever trust that anything would be compatible, but a single layer of fused seems less pissed than a full hot encasement in two versions of supposedly the same coe glasses from the same relative company.

Starting to understand why some people hate us, we will bicker about flaws in a grain of sand when we're talking about a beach. Apparently this is what I get for sharing.

Last edited by Shawn Everette; 07-27-2019 at 08:01 AM.
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  #44  
Old 07-27-2019, 07:28 AM
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No good deed shall go unpunished.

I revel in not relying on cullet.
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  #45  
Old 07-27-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Everette View Post
Starting to understand why some people hate us, we will bicker about flaws in a grain of sand when we're talking about a beach. Apparently this is what I get for sharing.
Sorry you're frustrated, Shawn. I can't speak for anyone else, but I try and do my best to offer some sort of clarity in areas that I can speak to.

As a former employee of Uroboros I can honestly say there is so much confusion and mystery swirling around about the whole System 96 thing that it is hard for me to unpack the parts I do know to try and separate fact from fiction. The whole Blowing Nugget thing is a complete mystery to me as that was completely under the purview of Spectrum.

I've made some of my knowledge public here because both companies are defunct. I have no dog in this race, and I have no conflict with either company. I left Uroboros on good terms, and they still seemed to like me afterwards (for some reason). Like I said, I just want to offer whatever technical advice I can for end users. I would never do this before as an employee because it was not my job. I can only guess what Oceanside will do, and I have no preconceived notions.

The idea that System 96 is actually a 94 is an incorrect generality. People have focused on the nuggets as being the standard (which is also incorrect). The nuggets in all of their forms are all over the map as far as L.E.C.. In my experience all of the other products in the 96 line (sheet, noodles, rods, frit, stringers, casting billets, et al.) were held to a tolerance of +/-.05 of 96.

The nuggets were always bizarre, and I have no idea what they were thinking.


Serious question now from those in this thread that are commenting on Spectrum's tooling. What's the difference between a float operation and a
"continuous ribbon"? This is not a trick question as I really don't know, and I never visited any of Spectrum's facilities.

[p.s. I've toured a float factory, and understand the technology]
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  #46  
Old 07-27-2019, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Vriethoff View Post
The nuggets in all of their forms are all over the map as far as L.E.C.. In my experience all of the other products in the 96 line (sheet, noodles, rods, frit, stringers, casting billets, et al.) were held to a tolerance of +/-.05 of 96.

The nuggets were always bizarre, and I have no idea what they were thinking.



]


The idea that System 96 is actually a 94 is an incorrect generality. People have focused on the nuggets as being the standard (which is also incorrect). The nuggets in all of their forms are all over the map as far as L.E.C..
***
When ever John and I measured it, it was a 94.1 far far far away from Sys96
Engineering slop as in surface area in the tank, temperature at the draw, materials measured and used, time in the tank.... all affect expansion. These people never gave a shit at all. They don't today. You have to test.
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  #47  
Old 07-27-2019, 08:26 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Had to vent, but think I'm ok now.

I too believe that the sheet was the primary standard for the company. The profit margins were way higher, and as Pete has always said there is no money in cullet at market values. It's not far fetched to believe that blowers would start such a myth to make it seem like a company turned pivot to meet their egos. Glassholes are a plenty.

I can't speak to the measured coe of any of it, but I've never had problems with fit for any combination of 96 system sheet and studio nugget; system, spectrum, or uroboros. Wissmach has been significantly more hit or miss, especially in terms of devit. Youghiogheny would be promising, but there are color consistency issues. Studio nuggets seemed to have been fairly close through their iterations, but Premium was another animal.

I'm not thinking that Spectrum was ever on a true "float" system, as I've never detected a tin layer. A molten tin bed is what signifies float, and leaves a very tale tell trace; hence my previous admission on editing. The factory floor is a sight to behold, but the tin makes a huge difference when fusing comes into play, and not in a positive way. I'd believe that the "continuous ribbon" would take advantage of similar mega lehr furnace to kiln type system, but simply starting it on heated plates/rollers that will leave the slight tool marks. True optical clarity is not a necessity as compared to float considering the intended applications, but I do prefer system/oecenside's finish too bullseye. Also, I like that they left you with a hard square edge on all sides, instead of some ridged mush that is mostly waste.

Last edited by Shawn Everette; 07-28-2019 at 07:27 AM.
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  #48  
Old 07-28-2019, 03:33 PM
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Had to vent, but think I'm ok now.
Think this is frustrating, try working for one of these companies. There were so many days I wanted to come on here and vent. I did get called out by Pete for it on one occasion. I try to be as professional as I can. I still haven't gotten to a place in life where I can just go off whenever I want. I am a home owner now, so I can honestly say "You damn kids get off my lawn!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Everette View Post
I'm not thinking that Spectrum was ever on a true "float" system, as I've never detected a tin layer. A molten tin bed is what signifies float, and leaves a very tale tell trace; hence my previous admission on editing. The factory floor is a sight to behold, but the tin makes a huge difference when fusing comes into play, and not in a positive way. I'd believe that the "continuous ribbon" would take advantage of similar mega lehr furnace to kiln type system, but simply starting it on heated plates/rollers that will leave the slight tool marks. True optical clarity is not a necessity as compared to float considering the intended applications, but I do prefer system/oecenside's finish too bullseye. Also, I like that they left you with a hard square edge on all sides, instead of some ridged mush that is mostly waste.
I could always tell from the surface quality that it is not an actual float process. Really smooth, but not mirror-like smooth. Never checked for tin. Much of the cullet that I used for making stringers, noodles, and rods came in the form of trimmings from the edges of the, I guess "ribbon." Many had the telltale gear marks from the pulling wheels.

Spectrum would send the larger cut sheets of clear and black (both 90 and 96) to Uroboros for final processing. The cold end monkeys would cut those sheets down into the smaller bite sizes, and also cut the disks of various sizes. The trimmings from the disks would be tossed in barrels to be shipped back for remelt. Each piece would be labeled for sale. Uroboros' foray into the 90 market was relatively unsuccessful; except for the clear and black squares and disks. I was told it's what prompted Bullseye to introduce its Tekta products. I guess it had really affected their sales of clear sheets.

Just because it has the little dragon on the labels doesn't necessarily mean it was made at the Uroboros factory in Portland.
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  #49  
Old 07-29-2019, 09:57 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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There really should be no surface tin unless it's in their irid, it's one of the things that makes true float such a pain for fusing or enameling.

Any time I was using 90 clear it was the tekta, never really looked into the Uro flat glass. Only time I strayed was with a double thick pieces of Wissmach, it had an interesting star patterns from the rollers which was apparently designed to make devit a living hell.

Which one was selling the trimmings in the 5 gallons? That was kinda nice for a cheap color melt, but the pot life was abysmal.

Hoping my house/get off my lawn situation will be taken care of shortly, sounds cathartic.
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  #50  
Old 07-29-2019, 10:12 AM
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Hoping my house/get off my lawn situation will be taken care of shortly, sounds cathartic.
Definitely. Home ownership has its perks.
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Last edited by Greg Vriethoff; 07-30-2019 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Useless, irrelevant information
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