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Old 06-25-2008, 07:42 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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High Temp Crucibles

I am pleased to introduce High Temp Refractory Company of Portland Oregon. I have been working with this 40 year old company for the last year developing crucibles for the studio glass industry. It is now the original equipment supplier for all of Steve Stadelman's Moly furnaces and has become my primary supplier for larger crucibles in the glass trade. Currently, I am the exclusive representative for High Temp Crucibles .

We have been field testing a 92 percent alumina body for these pots and have found them to perform extremely well in the field. The quality of the castings is superior in every way, the freight, handled by Fed-Ex Freight and UPS ground are extremely reasonable in their rates.

They cost a good deal less than any of their competitors.

We are currently selling a 34 inch pot, a 24 inch pot , a 28, a 19, a 16 a 14.5 inch pot and a 7 inch pot. The capacities of each of these pots will be similar to those of Engineered Ceramics. More sizes will come in the fall . We decided to concentrate on pots that are in wide usage first and to field test them. Those results have been excellent without problems of any sort over a prolonged period. I placed them with both experienced and inexperienced shops so I could get a good handle on the levels of abuse they would tolerate. The initial pots placed with Rick Satava had him melting his silver cobalt lustre glass which is profoundly corrosive. After three months in the furnace, we took the pots and diamond sawed them to show that these glasses had not penetrated the casting in any way. Currently Boyd Suguki and Josh Simpson are using the 24 inch pot as the primary melter and are happy campers. Steve Stadelman thinks enough of the pots that he is using them exclusively in his new furnaces.

High Temp makes and sells all sorts of refractory products for extreme temperature applications. I will also have available a variety of bricks, castables, mortars and insulating materials that will ship from Portland at reasonable prices. I will initially maintain these products in Portland only to keep from having to ship them twice, thereby keeping costs down. I will post a link to those products and their pricing soon. They are all available now.

Current Pricing for crucibles is as follows:

34 inch pot (600lb) $2132.00
28 inch pot (400lb) $1432.00
26 inch pot (393lb) $1327.00
24 inch pot (270lb ) $ 735.00
22 inch pot (190lb) $ 712.00
19 inch pot (145 lb) $ 568.00
14.5 inch pot (80lb) $ 315.00
11.5 inch pot (37LB) $ 175.00 straight wall
12.5 inch pot (92lb) $ 335.00 Straight wall 16 inch tall
11 inch pot (33lb) $ 185.00
7 inch pot (18lb) $ 65.00 Straight wall

COMING SOON ! 11 INCH POTS

All FOB Portland OR. Visit our Store www.crucibleconnection.com

Last edited by Pete VanderLaan; 06-26-2008 at 04:16 PM. Reason: more mind boggling info
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:42 PM
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Rich Federici Rich Federici is offline
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7" Pot

Dear Pete,

Is the 7" pot a flat bottom or round bottom? And... do you feel that it is made with a coarser or finer grog than the EC pots.

The reason I ask is that the EC flat bottom (3772) didn't seem to last very long, especially with cobalt. Not so much as failure due to cracks, but pinholes.
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Old 06-25-2008, 04:56 PM
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It is a fine slipcast for that size pot and it held up really well. We never lost one, we simply pulled them from the furnace so we could saw them up. That particular pot does not look as clean as the EC pot but in my opinion, it really delivered the goods. The larger pots are coarse grain tabular alumina as are the ones from EC but the casting is a lot tighter.

I don't want to bad mouth one manufacturer over another as I never bad mouth LaClede and I will still supply EC pots for those that want them . I am saying that the castings from High Temp are simply superior in quality as to the castings and the diamond sawing results were everything I could have hoped for. Steve switched to High temp so I suppose he might offer up his opinion. I don't know. I do think that when I am able to sit on the floor in the production facility with the president of the company drawing on the floor that I am in my element. This is a big operation , making major components for industry but they are giving this project their rapt attention. I like these guys.
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Old 06-27-2008, 12:18 AM
Steve Stadelman Steve Stadelman is offline
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These pots will be fantastic. The E.C. pots would come with a layer of slip smeared over the entire pot to hide defects like lip dings and hairline cracks in the potwall, the large sizes were especially bad. Les at High Temp will simply not allow it. If a pot is bad in any way they will not knowingly release it. Because of the initial blanket orders from Pete they understand the importance of our niche and want to work to supply the best possible product. I have the luxury of being able to drop in at any time and wander through the plant and they are not slacking.
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:17 AM
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Garner Britt Garner Britt is offline
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Any idea how these will handle thermal shock compared to the EC? Just wondering on behalf of those of us that run wiremelters part time.

garner
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:57 AM
Steve Stadelman Steve Stadelman is offline
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Les has paid a lot of attention to the coefficients of all the ingredients to these Garner. It is a balancing act of coe and particle size and les has 30+ years doing this and I am very confident that they will be better than E.C. in the thermal shock arena.
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Old 06-28-2008, 07:53 AM
Virgil Jones Virgil Jones is offline
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??????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Stadelman View Post
These pots will be fantastic. The E.C. pots would come with a layer of slip smeared over the entire pot to hide defects like lip dings and hairline cracks in the potwall, the large sizes were especially bad. Les at High Temp will simply not allow it. If a pot is bad in any way they will not knowingly release it. Because of the initial blanket orders from Pete they understand the importance of our niche and want to work to supply the best possible product. I have the luxury of being able to drop in at any time and wander through the plant and they are not slacking.
Steve (and Pete),

Are you saying the crack in my pot in my new Stadelman furnace is definitely a factory defect? If that is the case then I assume I will be reimbursed for the price of replacement. The vertical hairline crack WAS slightly noticeable at first as I informed both you and Pete. After a short amount of use it's very much there now!! I am changing the pot today with one of the THREE I just purchased from Pete...Are you telling me that I might be putting a defective EC pot in the furnace...One that has been camouflaged by the factory????

Virgil Jones
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:43 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil Jones View Post
Steve (and Pete),

Are you saying the crack in my pot in my new Stadelman furnace is definitely a factory defect? If that is the case then I assume I will be reimbursed for the price of replacement. The vertical hairline crack WAS slightly noticeable at first as I informed both you and Pete. After a short amount of use it's very much there now!! I am changing the pot today with one of the THREE I just purchased from Pete...Are you telling me that I might be putting a defective EC pot in the furnace...One that has been camouflaged by the factory????

Virgil Jones
***************

The only "camouflage" I ever see on EC pots is at the rims where they try to cover up small bite size munches in the lip Virgil. They irritate me because it doesn't make the "munch" go away. What should be happening there is that the "munch" shouldn't exist in the first place in my opinion and that trying to cover it up doesn't inspire much confidence either. EC however does not think that this is a serious problem and will not warranty it. I have yet to see a "munch" actually cause a failure of a pot.

I never know about cracks. EC takes the position that you need to inspect the pot extremely carefully when you receive it. Their position is that it may have been cracked in shipping. Maybe true, maybe not true. I can usually tell the difference between a shipping crack and a firing crack when the pot is new but once it has been run, it's impossible to say. Fine tooth comb inspection is really important.

My understanding regarding the pot you had in service is that it in fact never leaked which doesn't qualify as a defective pot from EC's point of view. I know this because I have tried to make claims on such issues in the past. I have seen hairline cracks in pots run for very long periods of time with no incident.

Even so, cracks happen and cracks happening early should be dealt with through a complaint process. Steve tells me that he asked for photos and he never received any from you. Without photos, nothing is going to happen. At this point, I doubt that anything will happen since too much time has passed, the pot doesn't seem to be leaking, You can certainly E mail me photos of the pot, with a complaint and I will take it to EC and give it my best representation.

Bringing it to a public forum is not particularly helpful.

I would like to make it clear that I have never seen EC try to cover up a crack of any substance. They cover little ones on the lip and that irritates me to no end. Further, they don't seem to have real difficulties with pots smaller than 19 inch in diameter. Yours I believe was a 16 inch. They do seem to have some issues with voids in their castings which is why we have been talking about the superiority of the castings at High Temp.

I am trying to introduce a product that I believe is superior in its castings and firings in every way. We have worked long and hard on this and are well pleased with the results. We are offering what I believe to be a superior product at a lower price. That I think should be viewed as a good thing but not as an opportunity to attack EC. EC has issues, LaClede certainly has issues. Ipsen had issues.Corhart has issues. I am sure that High Temp will have issues. For years, EC was the low cost alternative to LaClede. They have certainly gotten more expensive in a relatively short period of time. I am offering an alternative to that. There are people who are totally committed to La Clede and there are people who are totally committed to EC. There are people who hate all of them. They all try, some do better than others at one time or another. Life goes on. These are crucibles for melting glass and are frequently abused badly by the users. If I can find evidence that the user didn't bash the pot, I try to represent that to the manufacturer. It's one of the advantages of buying the pot through me. At that point you have a track record. When you buy direct, you pay the same price but you are on your own if there is a problem. It's up to the consumer as to how they want to proceed.

But I don't believe EC is fatally flawed at all. I just have a new alternative.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:33 PM
Justin Thompson
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Smile 11" crucible

Pete.....

I am thoroughly pleased and pleasantly surprised at how much workable glass I can pull from Hi-Temp's 11" crucible; however, I must being doing something wrong (I usually am).

In the last 6 months, I have gone through 2 pots and am currently running a cracked one that has a creatively monstrous Gerri-rig applied to it (you don't wanna know the details, but some hi-temp cement and a kiln shelf is involved)

At $160 a pot, it isn't the end of the world to replace one, but it adds up and money is hard to come by these days. (I just moved my studio and moving never costs what you expect it to).

Anyway.....I think that I have been OVERLY careful when ramping down and candling up the pot.....but; like I said, I seem to be going through pots unusually quick.

Do you have a ramping cycle (or stress range) for the Hi-Temp pots? I am pretty new at owning a studio; however, I have worked in plenty of other people's studios as the person in charge of costing them money. Lol, you really don't get a feel for how much things cost until the bills have your name on it. (Never before now did I realize the value of sorting through crack-offs and lip trims to recycle) =D

Anyway....anything would be helpful.....I shouldn't be going through a pot every 3-4 months, should I?
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:41 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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No, you shouldn't go through pots that quick but it's entirely possible to do it. You don't give out a boatload of important information:

Is the furnace gas or electric.
If gas, where's the burner?
If electric, how far from the elements is the pot?

What heat up schedule do you use now? The whole schedule please.
What turn down rate do you use.
Is the pot full or empty or hald way when you shut down.
How often do you turn it on and off.
What do you melt?
What temp do you melt at?
How often do you melt?

If our crucibles were lasting as long as you describe in general, I wouldn't have much of a business. Your experience suggests that you are doing at least one and maybe more than one thing in an unfriendly way to the pot. I like to see a pot in my own shop run about 70 cycles, perhaps 90 based on melting at about 2250F and turning the furnace up to 2375 for five hours after the melt cycle is complete. Sometimes ( With the black) I go up to 2410F which Is hard on the pots but they are still putting out.

Time is really irrelevant in melting life. The number of times you go up to temperature and down again is the significant figure here. If you were melting five times a week for 12 weeks that would be 60 melts. If it were being turned on and off, that would do damage to the pot and shorten its life so 60 or less would not surprise me. I think ideally in a studio you want to have enough glass to run for five days and then recharge. That makes for a 70 cycle pot to last over a year and that is what the bulk of my clients get. BUT how you treat it is really significant.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:14 PM
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Scott Novota Scott Novota is offline
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This simple answer based on what I know about my wire melter over the years is that every time it is ramped down you risk cracking it.

I went though 2 pots in the first 6 months because I was doing up and down.

Once I started to cycle down to 1400f (25f every hour down to 1400) when I was not working for a week instead of turning it all the way down the pot lasted 3 years. You pay one way or the other as Pete likes to say "no free lunch".


Scott.
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:13 PM
Justin Thompson
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Pete.....

Thank you for the info. I was actually not thinking in terms of melting cycles as it effects the life of the pot. I know that makes me sound ignorant; however, in this case...I guess I am. To think of a pot's life in terms of melting cycles; it makes a lot more sense and helps me to think in a different way. As I said, I am pretty new to owning my own studio and being responsible for things like this. My experience with pot furnaces has always been 200lb and above sized pots, and those usually experienced a death as a result of pitting and detereoration. I haven't had much experience with cracked crucibles.

The information that I left out.....

I run a wiremelter (an AIM 1411) and the pot sits about 2.75-3 inches away from the element groove (so about 3-3.25 inches away from the element itself). I have added a layer of soft brick to the sides, so that the elements aren't sitting 1.5 inches from the floor of the furnace (a very poor design IMHO). Because of the added layer of 2300F brick, I have had to elevate the pot about 3 inches off the floor.

I keep the furnace idled at 1900 when not working. When working, I ramp it up (usually over 1.5 hours) to 2160. The furnace stays at 1900 (or above) 24/7. Since I am mainly teaching and doing about 2 days of small production, I find myself charging about once every 4-5 days. During the melt, I ramp it up to 2200 (usually after a day of blowing, so the furnace is already at 2160). BTW, I melt System96 nuggets. I charge at 2200 (usually about 8 lbs/charge cuz of the size of the pot). After the charge, I ramp up to 2300 and soak for 4 hours. From 2300-1900, I run an 8 hour ramp down.

When I have had to turn it down to do maintainance, I usually ramp the pot down over about 4 days. I, of course, ramp it down with a fully empty pot. I pay special attention to the pot during its ramp from 1400-800, usually with a hold and soak at 1400 (for 10 hours) and 1000 (for another 10 hours). I do this because I have been told that the pot is most fragile (to heat) in the range from 800-1400 degrees. There was only one time that I wasn't able to fully empty a pot before a turn-down. I blew an element (on the old 1411's, there are only two sets of elements, so one element isn't able to sustain above 1600). So, I came in to find the furnace at 1600, with about 1/4 pot full of glass. Since I didn't have a torch small enough to fit in the peep hole, I had to ramp the pot down being 1/4 way full. Again, I was careful to ramp down between 1400-800.

The furnace pretty much stays on 24/7 for about 4 months at a time (my elements usually have a life of 4 months), then I need to ramp down to switch out. I have been pretty good at being able to catch the elements in time, before they pop and am forced to ramp the furnace down, as is.

I hope that you don't find my knowledge (or lack there of) too comical and can offer a bit of advice on the ramping schedule for both charging and for the turn-down for maintainance.

Thank you.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:01 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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How is the pot supported?


And, that's really pretty hot for system 96. It would be seriously fluid at 2300F which can really wear on a pot. Most people in wire melters melt that stuff at about 2175 and it's pretty much good to go the next day. Viscosity of your glass is a big factor.
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:42 AM
Justin Thompson
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The pot sits on top of a 1/2" kiln shelf; which in turn, is elevated by a tripod of soft brick.

I guess I thought that the system96 needed to hit that high to fully melt, but I guess that would defeat one of the reasons why nuggets were developed in the first place, huh. I haven't seen much pitting on my pots, so I didn't think that there was much deteroration going on; however, I guess if the glass is liquid enough, it could penetrate a hairline and make it a much bigger issue, huh?

Thank you for the info......

This board is an awesome resource.
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