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Old 09-21-2019, 02:16 PM
Eric Perdue Eric Perdue is offline
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Question Oceanside Nuggets

Hello everyone!

New guy here... I have a question about melting the new nuggets from Oceanside Glass & Tile. I just switched over from Kulger Clear, tried to melt these new nuggets the same way and have been getting a ton of seed bubbles. A ton.

Does anyone have a secret to melting this new stuff? I have a Little Dragon with a 65lb pot. I've heard that melting in these things can be tricky, but really haven't had any problems until I switched to Oceanside Nuggets

I've been filling up the pot cold and bringing it up to temp over about 3 hours. Then blasting it at almost full for the next 2. This got me near perfect glass with my other melts. I basically just hit it with the lowest flame available until I see color in the furnace and then start ramping it up to full blast.

I'm open to any suggestions here. My main form of income right now is doing demonstrations. Most events expect me to fire up and tare down in the same day. This is going to be really difficult the way these melts have been going for me. There are just soooooo many bubbles. And the holiday season is here, I'm starting to get worried...

Any help would be much appreciated :0)
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:34 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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well, do the nuggets have seeds in them before you even start the melt? That's pretty important.
*****
"I've been filling up the pot cold and bringing it up to temp over about 3 hours. Then blasting it at almost full for the next 2. This got me near perfect glass with my other melts."
****
I'm amazed at the results you claim to get. This has to be remarkably hard on the furnace as well as the pot. If it is the case that the nuggets are seedy to begin with, I'd say that getting rid of the seeds would involve taking the glass up to the point where the Antimony switches valence assuming the nuggets have antimony in them . There's simply no track record for anyone I'm aware of as to how Oceanside is really formulating the glass. The company may be close to you in terms of convenience but the advantage screeches to a halt right there. Furhter, keep in mind that the last known measurements of linear expansion in the sys96 cullet which I beleive Oceanside melts, is a 94.1, making it very shaky on compatibility with many color rods and frits.

I think, based on the current cullet market that you would be better off with Bomma Cullet which is hawked by OCR.
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:16 PM
Eric Perdue Eric Perdue is offline
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The nuggets are clear. I also washed them before loading

Everyone is pretty astonished by the results these Dragon furnaces are getting... It's hard to talk with people who know what they are doing because of this ;0) Also they are pretty old school in that there is nothing digital and only one gauge for the pressure going into the burner. So these units rely on feel and experience. Myself not being one of those smart people just adds to this mess

Kugler Clear handled this well. There were bubbles along the side of the pot for day 1 but they would be gone by day 2. My only issue was the working time. The glass was beautiful but my skills couldn't keep up with the short working intervals so I switched over. Unfortunately for me, there weren't any reviews out there to go off of when I ordered my skid of Spectrum. Like a dummy I took the discount on local shipping to make my decision. The glass works great, it just has so many bubbles

My guess is it doesn't like high temps? Or maybe it has to do with the fact that the flame is constantly touching the glass??

I've been squeezing for 4 hours now. There is a huge difference but when I gather there is still a galaxy of bubbles :0(

I still have 1900 pounds to go..... So I'm in it for awhile.
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Old 09-21-2019, 07:57 PM
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get them hotten longer then. You don't mention an acual temperature but conventional wisdom says 2300F is a good starting point. Four hours is a good starting time. Seeds are almost always a result of too little everything.
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:11 PM
Eric Perdue Eric Perdue is offline
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Thanks for the help

I went ahead and blasted it again and am now squeezing again.

I also went and took a look at the cullet, now that you mentioned it.. and there does seem to be more bubbles than I would have thought there should be. Each "pillow" has at least a couple bubbles.

Last edited by Eric Perdue; 09-21-2019 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 09-21-2019, 11:00 PM
Ron Mynatt Ron Mynatt is offline
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How's this? Softglass only, boro is all around 30-33. Information compiled from various manufacturer and distributor websites. I haven't included any sheet glass because that just gets overwhelming!

Rods

Bullseye 90
Uroboros 96
Gaffer 95.5
Effetre 104
Vetrofond 104
Lauscha 98-104
Check:
-Shampoo 95
-Soda-lime 102-115
-Lead transparent 96
-Lead opaque 103
Satake:
-Soda 113
-Lead 120
Kinari 120

Frits

Bullseye 90
Uroboros 90 and 96
Reichenbach 91-94
Kugler:
-transparent 91-95
-opaque 89-93
Zimmerman 94
Gaffer 95.5-96
Moretti 104
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Old 09-21-2019, 11:04 PM
Ron Mynatt Ron Mynatt is offline
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Just as a question? I had always thought the colors coming from Europe had lower Lec my glass is 94 and have never had a problem with matching any of them Are the above number wrong ?
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Old 09-21-2019, 11:05 PM
Ron Mynatt Ron Mynatt is offline
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The number above are not my numbers just ones from a website I found
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Old 09-22-2019, 06:36 AM
Sean Jones Sean Jones is offline
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I just changed from a shorter glass (Telux) to a longer one (Cristalica) and I get way more seeds.
I need to up the temperature but donít know how high I dare run my Kanthal A1 wire melter. I melt at 2200F.
Squeezing didnít help for me. Can it work with cullet like this?
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Old 09-22-2019, 08:07 AM
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my point about the cullet being seedy is the main problem. In so many of these boutique glasses, profitability is razor thin. So, if the manufacturer can get the glass out of the furnace faster, it saves a lot of money. For you to get seeds out that are actually part of the melt process is going to be really quite difficult since it's not really a secondary melt issue. I suspect that if one had some Antimony metal shavings ( and they do exist), they could be added in tiny amounts to the cullet and, if hot enough, would help in the absorption of those gasses.

It's harder for me to think on Eric's scenario because the method of prepping the furnace is antithetical to everything I believe to be good practice. That too is designed to be a razor thing time line from firing up to blowing so most of my approach fails ( as do most others). It's really back to "No Free Lunch". Glass has it's own dance and plays its own music. In furnace land, inexpensive tooling has a way of disappointing the operator.

As to Ron's observations about the expansion factors on colors that apparently all fit his 94 clear, I suspect you don't saw or grind much. I'm not going to argue about whether a 94 will fit a 104. Most of those glasses work within their own clear/ color worlds just fine but you will have a lot of heartache comingling them.
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Old 09-22-2019, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Jones View Post
I just changed from a shorter glass (Telux) to a longer one (Cristalica) and I get way more seeds.
I need to up the temperature but donít know how high I dare run my Kanthal A1 wire melter. I melt at 2200F.
Squeezing didnít help for me. Can it work with cullet like this?
***
You could try preheating the cullet in your annealler as hot as you can handle and then adding it in small quantities. I had a terrible time getting the seeds out of it when I was evaluating it for Spruce Pine. It can also be the case that some cullets, placed in a furnace that has contained other cullets has a really bad reaction to the switch. I recall Kuchinke saying a new pot gave best results.

Hotter is better but again, a wire furnace with limitations. These days I want a furnace that does whatever you need it to do. I think you could go up to 2250-75 for short periods but don't succumb to the BS out there that says you can run at 2380 all day, unless you like replacing elements ( and then pots) . An SCR on the kiln would help.
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:35 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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In with my 2 cents. So I'm STILL melting the new formula "96" nuggets and haven't really seen any need to bump up from working temp if you can afford the time. I've done this with a number of cullets, and by about 10-14 hours after last charge, no squeeze, I have glass I can work with in most cases. On the early side of that window there will be a plethora of seeds, but by the time I'm done blocking they've gone out of sight. This has always been on fast recouping gas, so ymmv with electric.

Agreed on the full pot from cold method, that just seems precarious, and not necessarily more efficient.
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:59 AM
Eric Perdue Eric Perdue is offline
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The glass was looking great by 11:00pm last night..

I took your advice and took it back up to high heat, held it for 2 hours and squeezed it. Glass looks great today. I'm a little bummed that it takes so long to get this point though. Definitely won't be able to sell items made on site with this stuff. My guess is this glass will take at least 7 hours to melt and fine out. That's a long day! if we're trying to do a 1 day event

Thanks for your help!
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:20 AM
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Two things: First my point is that the cullet you have has not completed its chemical reaction entirely and you are having to complete it. That takes time and heat. Shawn may have glass of the same formulation but it is chemically done and will yield very different short term results.

Second item. Change your presentation. Have two annealers in the demo. One is stone cold or maybe 130 degrees and chock full of the things you make in the demo. Box the ones you are making and when someone wants to buy the thing, go into the cooler lehr, bring out a (your product here) and say, "it's just cooled down enough now". You can make some bubble free ones earlier and not sweat the seeds in your demo glass.

You'll see this in Murano constantly. Brian Lonsway a PT Barnum kind of guy if there ever was one used to march in parades in Ohio back in the 70's wearing a chimney sweep's outfit. He made little rondels- called them suncatchers. He would march along blowing, jump on his little bench, work it, blow some more, punty and into one of the lehrs. Sold the snot out of them.

"It's just now cool enough". Send me a royalty.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Everette View Post
. I've done this with a number of cullets, and by about 10-14 hours after last charge, no squeeze, I have glass I can work with in most cases.
.
******
That's an eternity of time in this application.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:50 AM
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:17 PM
Eric Perdue Eric Perdue is offline
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That's some good stuff!


These Dragon furnaces are meant for quick fire ups and short working times. They are small propane run furnaces on casters. My pot is one of the bigger ones at 65lbs. I think perfect glass was the last thing on the makers minds.. It's been great for doing my weekend warrior thing and it's added a whole new revenue stream too. All in all, I'm really happy with this thing. There is definitely a learning curve here. And many limitations.. This might not have been the best choice for my first furnace.. Or maybe it was? I am gaining a lot of experience and knowledge through this process of trying to tame the Dragon

I appreciate all the feedback and help!
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Vriethoff View Post
Having hovered around Seattle long enough I heard a lot of legend and lore of the Boathouse (of course). I heard some interesting stuff from some of my mentors during my education about how Dale does his thing. Supposedly, if you ever see a piece fall to the floor during a demo it is intentional. If Dale isn't happy with how a piece is coming along he'll whisper to the gaffer "lose this one." Great way to work the crowd. "It's alright folks. It happens. There's a lot risk involved. Blah, blah, blah..." The gaffers that Dale uses aren't mere mortals like us that accidentally drop pieces.

I chuckled when I heard this, and thought to myself "damn, he is good."
***
I never saw anything like that when I was involved with dale.
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:01 PM
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
***
I never saw anything like that when I was involved with dale.
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:05 PM
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All in all, I've had a great time making glass and chasing windmills for fifty years. Being self employed every day was new and brought unexpected challenges. That being said , there are more glassworkers than the market can support.
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:16 PM
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Perdue View Post
The glass was looking great by 11:00pm last night..

I took your advice and took it back up to high heat, held it for 2 hours and squeezed it. Glass looks great today. I'm a little bummed that it takes so long to get this point though. Definitely won't be able to sell items made on site with this stuff. My guess is this glass will take at least 7 hours to melt and fine out. That's a long day! if we're trying to do a 1 day event

Thanks for your help!
I found melting Criatallica, 5 hours warm up time was minimum for decent glass. Which is why one day events usually don't make a lot of sense. At least 2 days.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:14 AM
Art Freas Art Freas is offline
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I have used a lot of System 96 Nuggets the first version and the "improved" version. The key sentence in all of this is what Pete said

"Two things: First my point is that the cullet you have has not completed its chemical reaction entirely and you are having to complete it. That takes time and heat."

It doesn't like short fire up times. I always had problems if I didn't give it enough heat and time.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:28 AM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is online now
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when I was doing 1 day demos, I always used a dark colored glass cullet. That way you didn't have to worry so much about bubbles or mush of anything else. a dark cobalt blue cullet worked very well. Then I could put a little silver glass on the outside in different decorations and reduce it and it met the requirements of being both blue and shiny.

As the old quote goes, "if you can't make it well, make it big, if you can't make it big, make it shiny, and if you can't make it shiny make it blue"

In the autumn I could switch to a light amber. Spring , a nice green.
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