Utter Disappointment with Corning Batch Company

[Rich Arentzen]

3 Years ago Lewis Olsen of the Corning Batch Company sold me many tons of glass that produced a "Sick Glass" effect which revealed itself as an alkaline fog that was impossible to clean off. This cost me $80,000 in returned orders from my most important client. He failed to take any responsibility for his faulty product. I have given him 3 years to at least make a gesture towards compensating my loss. I would have been happy with a couple of pallets of a different formula. But nothing, even after many promises. Feel free to let him know what a shithead he has been to me.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Before this becomes an utter pile on, what steps have you taken to date to negotiate compensation with Lewis? Have you let him know you are going after him here?

[Rich Arentzen]

I have asked him numerous times for some sort of meager compensation, and let's just say I have reason to believe that this is an appropriate response to how he thinks about the situation. I was discrete and gave him the benefit of the doubt for long enough. No need for piling on.

[Pete VanderLaan]

OK.
We have had some observations about fluorine being present in that mix and it had an effect like you describe. I think it was Eben who took note of it.

In reality, making a really solid structural glass is a difficult proposal. Everyone want this low melting stuff and wants it to be durable, high luster, noncorrosive and cheap all at the same time. We've seen how the reaction to the presence of Borax in glass causes almost universal reaction when it comes to American refractories. Fluorine will rack up a wire or Moly furnace in a heartbeat. There are only so many tricks in the glassmasters book if one is trying to make (ahem) cheap glass.
The formula I made that I like so much would be dissed by any of the stem makers because it has a higher viscosity than SP87. That said, it polishes far better and doesn't devitrify, a common complaint with people trying to cast with SP87, something Nick did not design it for. Color makers inn Germany are notorious for changes in the expansions. I continue to push for people to make their own glass bodies and I get dismissed as being a zealot. Then this sort of stuff comes along and one has to wonder where all the cullet mines were located in the 19th century.

[Josh Bernbaum]

I think now's as good a time as any for a class specifically on batching clear formulas. What ingredients do what and why, concentration parameters, sourcing materials, process, and a bit of safety too. I heard that in Peiser's class at Penland last summer, they started with the most basic glass, silica and sodium, then kept adding constituents to see the real world effects that each contributed to the resulting glass. Too bad everyone seems to be afraid of dust these days.

[Eben Horton]

The pieces that I have left that are made from Corning batch are now 100% opaque. They were crystal clear sealed hollow spheres. Then over time they weeped and weeped what ever... soda?

[Eben Horton]

There definitely was fluorine in that batch. It etched all of my windows opaque grey in the hotshop and even in my gallery.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Originally Posted by Josh Bernbaum

I think now's as good a time as any for a class specifically on batching clear formulas. What ingredients do what and why, concentration parameters, sourcing materials, process, and a bit of safety too. I heard that in Peiser's class at Penland last summer, they started with the most basic glass, silica and sodium, then kept adding constituents to see the real world effects that each contributed to the resulting glass. Too bad everyone seems to be afraid of dust these days.

*****
I talked to Mark and here's what he said:

We did! We started with a water soluble glass- just silica and soda. Actually, I didn’t/can’t find, the records of what we melted, someone in the class was supposed to keep records. In terms of quantifying results, 50 yrs ago I built a “ cloud chamber”an acrylic cube about 13”, wherein samples were put, and then alternately heated water to mist the samples and then a heat/dry cycle began, and repeat. This thing ran continuously through the class and beginning with the “soluble” stuff,which began decomposing in an hour, the next glasses began etching pretty much as you’d predict. There were no numbers. We started by adding Ca, then Sr, then Ba and somehow got to B2O3 and Al2O3 and whatever. The class was into it just by checking the erosion of samples, but mostly by gathering bits and such of the melts and feeling differences. I do believe they got that. The feedback from the students was good. It was a one week class- God knows what I would have done if it was longer.
*******

[Josh Bernbaum]

I hope he teaches one more time, I'm sorry I missed that last class.

[Charles Friedman]

Rich I have a question, about how long did it take to see the fogging effect on your glass?
I have had problems in the past, with bad material that was made for production use. Clay and glass can have problems when not mixed correctly or with bad raw materials to start with. When ever I had a problem with my suppliers and made a complaint, there stock answer was "test before going on line, that is standard production procedure." With that said upfront first, there was no court that would listen. You are just out of luck, the lawyers would say. Sorry for your loss.

[Pete VanderLaan]

To add to that, Expecting any product to be able to do lots of different things is really unrealistic. Spruce Pine is a reasonable and well liked blowing glass but it is a very poor choice for casting due to devitrification. It isn't a great polishing glass but seems OK until you use a really great one.That great polishing glass sucks for stemware and it's baked into the cake. Rich still hasn't indicated what the glass pieces were but anytime glass is sealed shut you should expect troubles.
Glassblowers just want so many attributes. Low Melt, easy working no cords, no bubbles, high clarity. Yet they use generic inexpensive products off the shelf and expect perfection.

[Pringle Teetor]

Senility has set in. Does Gaffer make a batch? Maybe that’s what I was thinking.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Gaffer indeed does have a batch. It is mixed at Spruce Pine and can be ordered from them. I don't know the cost but it's not out of line.

[Rich Arentzen]

It took a couple of weeks for the glass to reveal itself to be faulty. It was a greasy alkaline fog on both sides of open vessels that would seemingly wipe off but then reappear very quickly. I accept that mistakes can be made by vendors, but in my experience, most people take responsibility for them. I do not think that my expectations for a stable glass or vendor accountability are unrealistic. I certainly get that from most vendors in the glass world.