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Old 03-26-2018, 02:38 PM
Gail Obendorf Gail Obendorf is offline
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Question Cold working equipment

We've been saving $$ to buy some cold working equipment for our small, home based glass shop. [Something beyond my trusty dremmel ]
There are so many options and everything looks amazing & useful
We would love to get some advice on where to start.
Dependable, reasonably priced brands...
Essential, couldn't run my cold shop without it equipment...
Stay away from this...

Thanks!
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Old 03-26-2018, 03:12 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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It depends quite a bit on what you think you want that equipment to do. I find the bulk of new tooling to be under engineered but you don't say a thing about usage. The old school tooling is very hard to find now but creaky glassblowers do retire. Interestingly, no small shops have opened up making polishing tools of consequence. The Hot Glass information Exchange had excellent drawings of building such stuff to the point where that's an option.
I mean, what do you make, how large? What are these tools supposed to do for you and your work?
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Old 03-26-2018, 04:59 PM
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BUT! If I bought a single tool for a glass studio to start with, it would be a 106 inch wet belt sander with 120, 220 and 400 belts. Maybe some cerium/cork belts. All CRL supplied.
et it used, it's put there, expect to spend 600-1000 dollars. Go from there.
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:42 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
BUT! If I bought a single tool for a glass studio to start with, it would be a 106 inch wet belt sander with 120, 220 and 400 belts. Maybe some cerium/cork belts. All CRL supplied.
et it used, it's put there, expect to spend 600-1000 dollars. Go from there.
That is all i have and i fully agree with you on this.

i rarely cold work anything. .
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:43 PM
Marty Kremer Marty Kremer is offline
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My first was a good 10" saw and then a homemade 24" flat lap. The 106" WBS came later.

Followed by a sandblaster, an Englesby lathe, another saw, another WBS, another lap, a reciprolap (for sale soon), some air hand tools.......
You think you've got enough when you start to run out of room.
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:09 AM
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Lets see, what I have currently: I have sold some.

32 inch 60 grit horizontal lap
38 inch 120 grit horizontal lap
32 inch 400 grit horizontal lap
30 inch pumice polish
30 inch cerium felt polish
20 inch diamond saw
106 belt sander
two dyna files
one die grinder
one water fed drill press
six reciprolaps
48 inch sandblast booth
two pressure pots
one 7.5 HP compressor
one five HP compressor
5 HP crusher
But it does depend on what you tool up to make.

John Bingham used to say that if you couldn't get all your stuff into a 53 foot trailer, you probably owned too much stuff. It took me two 53 foot trailers just to haul the glass shop when we came east. John lacked imagination but he packed better than I did.
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:37 AM
Marty Kremer Marty Kremer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail Obendorf View Post
We've been saving $$ to buy some cold working equipment for our small, home based glass shop. [Something beyond my trusty dremmel ]
There are so many options and everything looks amazing & useful
We would love to get some advice on where to start.
Dependable, reasonably priced brands...
Essential, couldn't run my cold shop without it equipment...
Stay away from this...

Thanks!
What will you be making? Production? Can you work around coldworking? How much space/electric/plumbing/budget do you have?
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:25 PM
Kenny Pieper Kenny Pieper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
BUT! If I bought a single tool for a glass studio to start with, it would be a 106 inch wet belt sander with 120, 220 and 400 belts. Maybe some cerium/cork belts. All CRL supplied.
et it used, it's put there, expect to spend 600-1000 dollars. Go from there.
I'm with Pete here. A belt sander can be the most versatile piece of equipment in a cold shop. If you get a flat platem and a roller platem, they bolt on and off, you can do bottoms and shape the outside of pieces. Great for seaming the outside of sharp edges.
I just sold one this last year for $350 if I remember correctly.
You can often find them stashed in back corners of flat glass shops. I bought a fine one here in my town of 2000 people for $50. Just get out the yellow pages and start calling.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:53 PM
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It seems to me that Tom Philabaum was selling one last year. He's stopping so there may be some good tooling in play. Jim Clarke out of Boulder Colorado was selling some good stuff last year but I don't know where that went.
No one is actually building solid modern equipment at this point as best as I know. I consider almost all of the new stuff to be under engineered. But again, it depends on what you want to do with it. Over 50 years, I did a lot of different stuff and tooled up each time. I just almost never sold it. I did sell two upright cork and felts and I regret that. Dave Hilty is retiring and he may well have a cold shop coming up. He sent me a 16 inch hard felt a few years back and I think we'll make that puppy run again. I love hard felt and Eveline's cerium.

But 50 Bucks Kenny? I'm really jealous now. Mine was 60 bucks. I feel so violated.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Kremer View Post
What will you be making? Production? Can you work around coldworking? How much space/electric/plumbing/budget do you have?
*****
And if you are doing production, minutes are money. Look at efficiency in what you make.
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:10 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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I got Kenny beat. My local flat glass shop gave me a sommer macca 109 belt sander for free. All I had to do was press in new bearings and she ran like new. I even gave her a POR-15 paint job in battle ship grey. Its really the only machine I use.
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eben Horton View Post
I got Kenny beat. My local flat glass shop gave me a sommer macca 109 belt sander for free. All I had to do was press in new bearings and she ran like new. I even gave her a POR-15 paint job in battle ship grey. Its really the only machine I use.
******
Too bad it's not a 106. Then commercial belts might fit.
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:47 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
******
Too bad it's not a 106. Then commercial belts might fit.
Woops. It is a 106.
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Old 03-27-2018, 04:15 PM
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well,,, I knew that actually..
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:41 AM
Kenny Pieper Kenny Pieper is offline
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Well years ago living in Oakland my wife at the time worked at a sandblasting shop. They had a machine that was two 132" belt grinders together. It was taking up too much room so they had me cut it in half and gave me one for effort.
Berkley use to have a section at the land fill where people would go through the trash and resale what they thought was still useful. For $100 I got a really old Henry Lang 30" flat grinder. All cast iron with babbitt bearings, big solid machine. Still using it today.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:43 AM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Pieper View Post
Well years ago living in Oakland my wife at the time worked at a sandblasting shop. They had a machine that was two 132" belt grinders together. It was taking up too much room so they had me cut it in half and gave me one for effort.
Berkley use to have a section at the land fill where people would go through the trash and resale what they thought was still useful. For $100 I got a really old Henry Lang 30" flat grinder. All cast iron with babbitt bearings, big solid machine. Still using it today.
damn. you win!
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:13 AM
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Indeed, It's like that newcastle stone that was shown as a backyard table recently. Truly a valuable stone if you knew what it was. I don't think Bingham or I ever paid more than 50 bucks for a horizontal lang or an upright cork and felt. . The belt sander was splurging. We cleaned out the four corners area for sure.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:21 AM
Gail Obendorf Gail Obendorf is offline
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You guys are great! I love all of the competition about who got the best deal! Hahaha ☺️
Quote:
I mean, what do you make, how large? What are these tools supposed to do for you and your work?
We don't need anything AMAZING... yet! We make mostly small things (ornaments, vases, bowls etc.) & are limited by the size of our glory hole. It can handle pieces that are 14" - 16" tall with an 8 inch circumference.
Our biggest needs are for ugly 😲 punty mark removal, bottoms, minor shaping & polishing (hopefully both flat & curved surfaces). Doing decorative cuts would be fun - someday.
Quote:
. If you get a flat platem and a roller platem,
????? I'm so new that I don't even know what this means...
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:59 AM
Kenny Pieper Kenny Pieper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail Obendorf View Post
????? I'm so new that I don't even know what this means...
Well it is the part of the belt grinder you push against while sanding. The flat platen is still, hard, flat, and good for doing flat surfaces like bottoms of vases The round platen is a roller with a rubber type surface that is good for grinding convex surfaces. You can see the two here
https://www.hisglassworks.com/shop/m...and-parts.html
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail Obendorf View Post
????? I'm so new that I don't even know what this means...
Here's what the flat platen looks like:
3mp2200.jpg

Roller platen:
hg-roller.jpg

These are what the belt travels over at the front of the machine where you do your business. You press the work against it. Flat for flat surfaces. With the roller you can also work slightly concave surfaces.
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:01 AM
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Kenny beat me to it.
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:01 AM
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well, actually, it's "Platen". It's a plate behind the moving belt that you can push against with your glass piece. The flat is... flat and the roller is about 5 inch diameter times four inches wide and will spin when you put pressure against it while the drive motor is moving the belt. I only have a flat one and actually don't really like to use it. Most of my time on the wet fed belt is chamfering edges that were ground on the 120 grit machine.

If you want to remove punty marks that are butt ugly a round diamond water fed bit in a chuck may do what you want but it will not polish that rounded divot. Look to places like GLASTAR or HIS Glassworks to sel that stuff. You again would need a matching cork to polish that up. I always grind clearface when I do the bottom of a piece and I grind everything. If a punty is bad enough you should A) learn to punty better, and B) Maybe not do it at all as it can draw attention to the perceived flaw.

Belts will never make a flaw perfect again. It will always show. The tendency when you are inexperienced trying to perform such acts is a lot like spilling black ink on a white carpet and then trying to clean it up. Belt sanders sort of kind of solve problems but each individual tool does it way better. My list shows what happens if you acquire this stuff unchecked by finances or desire over decades . Lots of people hate coldwork. I don't.
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:51 AM
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When I grow up I want to have a cold shop like Pete's. Did I mention I'm turning 50 in a couple months?

Here are some suggestions that may be helpful (even if they may not be practical for your situation). I'm not sure where in Oregon you are, but the resources available for what I consider to be good cold working are limited. Travel may be necessary (and is encouraged).

Take a class or workshop in cold working. I mean from someone that is an expert cold worker. If you're lucky to work with someone that knows their way around a shop they will point you in the right direction based upon your needs. It's also a lot of fun. My only experience at Pilchuck was a coldworking workshop. The overall session was quiet with mostly beginner offerings. Not the typical experience. I loved it.

If you haven't already, obtain a copy of The Joy of Coldworking. It's a good jumping-off point for beginners. I'm hoping someone will follow it up with more advanced information, but it's such a niche market it's has to be a labor of love.

To elaborate on what Pete has suggested, I suggest not looking to coldwork as a way to "fix" things that occur during the hot process(es). Yes, as a beginner, your punties are going to be chunky and leave big divots. Focus on making that connection better, so the scarring will be minimal. At the very least you won't have to spend as much time (and materials) removing glass that is in places that you don't want it. And, yes, there are always times when you'll be compelled to fix a blemish on an otherwise excellent piece (especially when you get to the point where you're investing a lot of time into individual pieces). I'm not going to lie, and say I never do this.

I don't know how much of this is practical advice. In my perfect world cold working would be a choice, not a necessary evil that people grudgingly do. There are some glass blowers I know that hate it so much they've gotten their technique down at the bench, so it is unnecessary for them. I really think of it as an art form unto itself, and prefer to view it from a design perspective rather than a utilitarian one.

Coming here and asking questions is my other piece of advice, which you are already doing, so good!

(I bought Kenny's last year. Glad to know what the profit margin on these things is guys )
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:56 AM
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Paul Harrie was a really good designer in cold worked glass. I'll miss him.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:54 PM
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I love my two position lathe with spherical miracles (60 and 220 grit). This and a flat lap are great and can handle about anything. Got a Foredom and a 14" saw also. Sandblaster. Things do tend to accumulate.
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